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  1. #11
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We can't understand the ubermensch without understanding the untermensch.
    From an historical viewpoint, maybe. But from a philosophical viewpoint, you couldn't be more wrong. Nietzsche never mentioned anything about untermensch. Nietzsche set forth what one ought to be, NOT what one ought NOT to be. There's a difference.

    Go to the horse's mouth to understand the concept of ubermensch with all due fairness, and no other source.

  2. #12
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    Thumbs down The Role Model for Untermensch

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    From an historical viewpoint, maybe. But from a philosophical viewpoint, you couldn't be more wrong. Nietzsche never mentioned anything about untermensch. Nietzsche set forth what one ought to be, NOT what one ought NOT to be. There's a difference.

    Go to the horse's mouth to understand the concept of ubermensch with all due fairness, and no other source.
    Nietzsche himself was an untermensch, riddled with disease and mentally ill.

    And being an untermensch, Nietzsche sought to escape into the fantasy of the ubermensch.

    And from then on Nietzsche has been the role model for all untermensch seeking to escape into the ubermensch.

    Nietzsche's popularity can only be understood in psychological terms.

    Nietzsche will always be popular with adolescents wishing they were men.

  3. #13
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    ^ A desire to ascend to an Ubermensch status doesn't necessarilly mean that the one who wishes to do so is an untermensch. I desire to establish myself one day as an ubermensch, but I am certainly not an untermensch. But even then if an untermensch really desired to do so, they could attempt to become an ubermensch, and perhpas if they possess enough strong will that goal will be possible.

    But anyway is this really any relevant to the original discussion that I initiated? I really don't give a rats ass about abundant untermensch people, I'm more concerned about analyzing who rare ubermesch people of society.

  4. #14
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    Thumbs down The Psychopathic Personality and the Ubermensch

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Brain View Post
    ^ A desire to ascend to an Ubermensch status doesn't necessarilly mean that the one who wishes to do so is an untermensch. I desire to establish myself one day as an ubermensch, but I am certainly not an untermensch. But even then if an untermensch really desired to do so, they could attempt to become an ubermensch, and perhpas if they possess enough strong will that goal will be possible.

    But anyway is this really any relevant to the original discussion that I initiated? I really don't give a rats ass about abundant untermensch people, I'm more concerned about analyzing who rare ubermesch people of society.
    The ubermensch are frauds. They are not comfortable in their own skins, they are not comfortable with their own vulnerability nor the vulnerability of others.

    They want to be ubermensch to avoid their own vulnerability and to take advantage of the vulnerability of others.

    They hate their own vulnerability and never discover that vulnerability is the very basis of creativity.

    The ubermensch are devoid of empathy and creativity and indeed the ubermensch are psychopathic personalities.

  5. #15
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    You know i didn't agree with your earlier posts, but that ^ has an interesting point....

    It's very existentialist of you to assert that the Ubermensch are trying desperately to cover up their own anxieties and inner troubles of turmoil. Very Heideggerian, ironically :P

    What is an Ubermensch trying to prove, if anything? hmmmm

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    Originally posted by Victor
    The ubermensch are frauds. They are not comfortable in their own skins, they are not comfortable with their own vulnerability nor the vulnerability of others.

    They want to be ubermensch to avoid their own vulnerability and to take advantage of the vulnerability of others.

    They hate their own vulnerability and never discover that vulnerability is the very basis of creativity.
    This is nothing more than a common miscinception of the Ubermensch. While an Ubermensch may appear psychopathic i nartue, and they certainly could, that does not mean that Ubermensch and psychopath are synonomis with one another. Also certain Ubermensch people become Ubermensch without even knowing so, as previous examples that I have stated show, one does not need be some wannabee in order to be an ubermensch.

    The ubermensch are devoid of empathy and creativity and indeed the ubermensch are psychopathic personalities.
    Oh this is just bull-shit. An ubermensch can most definitely possess a creative streak, I'm not certain where you drew that ridiculous accusation (out of your ass I'm sure) and it's blantently false. The same principle can be said for empathy (and for the record while a psychopath may lack empathy they usaully are very creative), now please stop derailing my thread and at least try to get back on subject.

  7. #17
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Well hold on here....

    I think some Psychopaths could be Ubermensch(UM), but not every Psychopath is an Ubermensch(UM), obviously.

    To me, it's a valid question to ask whether the UM is more prone to the destructive and utterly hurtful behaviors of psychopathy. This interests me as a Utilitarian of sorts because while the UM is admired and aspired to for obvious reasons, as you yourself have laid out, I don't think its typical to stop and consider what repercussion there would be if say, 50 % of the population miraculously became UM. I think it could be disastrous.

    To try and un-de-rail the thread, let's put it in this rather Kantian way - if everyone acted like Teddy Roosevelt, what would the world be like?

  8. #18

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    I dont believe so, its highly subjective and I'm not sure its anything other than a kind of ideological percept which can motivate normal people to make a greater effort, that's all.

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    Origianlly posted by nozflubber
    Well hold on here....

    I think some Psychopaths could be Ubermensch(UM), but not every Psychopath is an Ubermensch(UM), obviously.

    To me, it's a valid question to ask whether the UM is more prone to the destructive and utterly hurtful behaviors of psychopathy. This interests me as a Utilitarian of sorts because while the UM is admired and aspired to for obvious reasons, as you yourself have laid out, I don't think its typical to stop and consider what repercussion there would be if say, 50 % of the population miraculously became UM. I think it could be disastrous.
    Well the UM is indeed more destructive of certain social norms, but unlike a run-of-the-mill psychopath who violates norms in a reckless and chaotic manner, the UM analyzes certain norms and decides whther they hold any relevent value to society, discarding them in favor of newer, better social norms. Now if 50% of a society were UM, I have no idea how that society would funtion. I suppose that it could funtion as a super society, or it might be pure and utter chaos, I'm entirely not sure.

    To try and un-de-rail the thread, let's put it in this rather Kantian way - if everyone acted like Teddy Roosevelt, what would the world be like?
    I imagine that such a society would funtion marvelously, as Teddy Roosevelt was not only an extrodinary leader, but also someone who was committed to doing responsible tasks for the greater sake of society.

    Origianlly posted by Lark
    I dont believe so, its highly subjective and I'm not sure its anything other than a kind of ideological percept which can motivate normal people to make a greater effort, that's all.
    How exactly is judging UM people in history subjective? If people in history fit the criteria for being an UM, then logically they would be UM.

  10. #20
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Damn, I thought I'd be able to figure out what the hell ubermensch really means by reading those 19 posts.

    Still completely confused.

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