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  1. #41
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    From what I understand, the interesting thing about Judaic culture is that they are not modernistic -- they don't insist that there is only "one right/best" answer, at least not in this area. They accept it is interpretation, and two rabbis can still be both respected and considered insightful and informative even when they disagree.
    You are very correct Jen - the tradition in the Temples is that the Lore/Law, and its interpretation, is argued rigorously from the time a young man achieves his Bah Mitzvah. As an aside, this I believe is why Jewish men (I say men because in Orthodox Judaism women don't argue the Lore/Law) make great lawyers and barristers. It is part of their experience from such an early age.

    NOTE My father is a Liberal and grandparents were Orthodox Jewry.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    What you have observed is, I believe, accurate. The disconnect lies between what humans do in the name of God (or in the name of religion, which is worse), and what God does (or even that He simply exists).

    Jesus reserved his anger for the most outwardly religious people he encountered, specifically for the reason that those individuals were luring others away from really knowing God. This observation is consistent with what you said earlier, which I quoted above.

    I would encourage you to do a slow contemplative read starting in Matthew chapter 5 (the Sermon on the Mount). As you're probably already aware, you'll find a lot there that rings true. As far as I can tell, this is the core of the Christ's message, and it's what keeps me coming at it from a Christian point of view.
    All of my reading on Spirituality is slow and contemplative I grew up in a mixed religion household - I went to the Schul for Saturday School and, much to my very high Anglican grandmother's horror, would "try out" each of the Christian denominations' Sunday Schools and Youth Groups from around 6yo. I was not baptised as a child. Also much to my Grandmother's shock, my brother and I would invite in the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses so we could hear their stories too.

    In my twenties I had many questions about faith and religion and the Churches and wished to be baptised but wanted to be baptised as a Christian and NOT into a particular branch of faith. It wasn't until all my questions had been answered that I finally found the opportunity to be baptised non-denominational.

    The small group I belonged to started off very purely but as it grew, it too became corrupted by the self-righteous and those critical of all others not part of the group so I left and pursued my spritual path on my own, occasionally meeting others along the way who felt similarly to me.

    My investigations have covered Buddhism, the Muslim faith and some of the other Eastern religions. My reading have covered some of the Koran, the Nag Hamaddi books (including the Book of Thomas), Gnosis (which I am still in the process of investigating) and sundry other spiritual journeys written by individuals.

    Through this journey I have evolved my beliefs to where they are today. I have met many individuals who have been truly spiritual and selfless from ALL religions, but have met countless more who make loud claims as to their faiths are dogmatic, self-righteous and exclusive to the point that they advocate violence. That makes me both angry and sad.

    I will reread Matthew but it is unlikely, I would have to say at the moment, to change my disappointment in humanity, and their acceptance of those from other faiths, even though most of the major religions have many, many similarities.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
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    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  3. #43
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    hee.... and if you do, ask a few different ones.
    Because you will probably get a different interpretation from each.

    From what I understand, the interesting thing about Judaic culture is that they are not modernistic -- they don't insist that there is only "one right/best" answer, at least not in this area. They accept it is interpretation, and two rabbis can still be both respected and considered insightful and informative even when they disagree.

    I don't really find that in Christian circles, it really does seem a lot that even when people just try "get along" and not criticize each other, there's still this underlying sense that one person is more right than the other regardless of what can be proven (that if you pushed them and MADE them state their underlying feelings, it would be "I'm right, and they're misleading people"), and the goal is to "have things right." This attitude might have been changing in recent times but still is in play.
    That is an interesting observation. I would hypothesize that this mentality actually originates with the Roman Empire. In those times people truly were forced to see and do things the Roman Way, because they had an all powerful empire. The Catholic Church is basically a mixture of Roman and Christian ideologies, so that explains the militant mindset of Catholics. And of course the Protestant churches all came out of the Catholic church which explains the militant mindset of Protestants.

    So in spite of all of the peace and mercy taught in the New Testament, Christians have culturally inherited a militant mentality.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Here we go again...
    Just noticed this one Jen - is that really so bad? You have been here a long time but many newer members have not engaged in this sort of discussion and may have something significant to contribute to enlighten us all??
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkadelic View Post
    I've heard that the Christian God is the worst murderer of all.

    and I ran into this just now:

    Deaths in the Bible: God - 2,270,365 not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers were given. Satan - 10.

    Thoughts? victor? I'm open.
    3,000,000 and he gets to keep the match ball.

  6. #46
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I will reread Matthew but it is unlikely, I would have to say at the moment, to change my disappointment in humanity, and their acceptance of those from other faiths, even though most of the major religions have many, many similarities.
    "Disappointment in humanity"... now there's a thing that rings true.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkadelic View Post
    I've heard that the Christian God is the worst murderer of all.

    and I ran into this just now:

    Deaths in the Bible: God - 2,270,365 not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers were given. Satan - 10.

    Thoughts? victor? I'm open.
    Satan will tell you those lies.

  8. #48
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Just noticed this one Jen - is that really so bad? You have been here a long time but many newer members have not engaged in this sort of discussion and may have something significant to contribute to enlighten us all??
    Maybe you misunderstood my point:

    I'm all for enlightened discussion.
    It's the exaggerated vitriol that gets old.
    Running yet another "Whiny Bitch Session about Christianity" starting by calling God a serial killer gets old, and a large chunk of the earlier posts amounted to about as much... barroom bitching, not more thoughtful discussion.

    I would rather have the nuanced discussion, esp if we're not going to move this thread into Bonfire or Graveyard.

    (PS. God wouldn't be a serial killer, he'd be a mass murderer. Even the criminology terms are off!)
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