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What is a conscience?

WildCard

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This is more of philosophic approach than a literal one. This is another one of those conversations that tend to spring up at one or two in the morning when the shift gets boring.

To start with, let's get rolling with a quote from Socrates "Before we begin talking, we must decide what we're going to talk about."

It all started with this simple, unassuming question: "What is a conscience?"

You would not believe the chaos that ensued.
*****
After I stepped back and took a close look, I realized that our consciences tended to follow what was morally good for a particular society, as well as what our parents tell us is right. For instance, it is highly barbaric for a man in Western society to keep his wife locked away or beat her for simply glancing at another man. However, in Islamic areas, this is the traditions that they have followed for centuries.

So, by their morality, they have done nothing wrong.

I believe what most people call their "conscience" is simply a collection of what society, and your parents, have told you. Since I come from an extremely conservative home, sex outside of marriage is highly frowned upon and believed to be a sin.

But for someone from a more liberal household, sex outside of marriage is nothing wrong.

Thoughts anyone?
 

swordpath

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Your conscience is the subconscious that you've been conditioned towards and acclimated to, given your upbringing and the culture/society that one is accustomed to (basically what you've just said yourself). There's nothing supernatural about one's conscience, as some like to believe; and it never takes the form of a cricket on your shoulder (strictly in my own observation :jew:).
 

Mole

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Where was superego and id, let there be ego.

This is more of philosophic approach than a literal one. This is another one of those conversations that tend to spring up at one or two in the morning when the shift gets boring.

To start with, let's get rolling with a quote from Socrates "Before we begin talking, we must decide what we're going to talk about."

It all started with this simple, unassuming question: "What is a conscience?"

You would not believe the chaos that ensued.
*****
After I stepped back and took a close look, I realized that our consciences tended to follow what was morally good for a particular society, as well as what our parents tell us is right. For instance, it is highly barbaric for a man in Western society to keep his wife locked away or beat her for simply glancing at another man. However, in Islamic areas, this is the traditions that they have followed for centuries.

So, by their morality, they have done nothing wrong.

I believe what most people call their "conscience" is simply a collection of what society, and your parents, have told you. Since I come from an extremely conservative home, sex outside of marriage is highly frowned upon and believed to be a sin.

But for someone from a more liberal household, sex outside of marriage is nothing wrong.

Thoughts anyone?

A conscience is the superego. And along with the id, is mediated by the ego.

The only thing more hellish than domination by the superego is domination by the id.

So ego is not a dirty word.

Where was superego and id, shall be ego.

Of course they hypnotise us by telling us to abandon ego and create heaven on earth.

But experience tells us that by abandoning ego for the superego or id leads to hell on earth.

Heaven on Earth is the siren song of the Romantics, while the Enlightenment brings us into contact with reality and one another.
 

InsatiableCuriosity

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I don't necessarily agree that conscience is all about societal expectations??? My conscience for instance, required me to question the accepted practise of giving children toy guns. My son was born in 1975 and daughter in 1976.

Toy guns were banned from my house because my conscience rebelled against a child pointing any type of toy weapon at anyone, child or adult, and saying bang, bang you're dead when they had no concept, or understanding, of someone being dead!

Instead they were taught a respect for life and that every living thing had a right to life except where it may threaten the survival of another, or was required for sustainable living.

(No, I am not a vegetarian because nature equipped me as an omnivore, but I do advocate humane treatment and despatch of animals raised for human consumption and only buy free-range eggs, chicken and meats where possible.)

For me, conscience is the instinctive feeling that something is humane or not, fair or not, just or not, kind or not, and I more closely equate it to the concept of soul than anything.
 

swordpath

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When it comes to treating others well, I feel like that's an innate ethic that most people share, because it's what we desire from others in return... The topic of conscience is probably better to debate when dealing with more minor issues of right/wrong that people often struggle with; such as sexuality, stealing under certain circumstances, etc.
 

WildCard

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Still, how can we know it's instinctual? Most of us do not remember when we were very young, so how can we know what we were taught as children was truly something instinctual or just parenting?
 

InsatiableCuriosity

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Still, how can we know it's instinctual? Most of us do not remember when we were very young, so how can we know what we were taught as children was truly something instinctual or just parenting?

I know for me it was instinctive as these were not the values held by my parents. Perhaps I should have said inate rather than instinctual. For me it relates to any living thing, not just people, but animals and plants, and how we interact with fragile ecosystems that have taken millenia to evolve.

Perhaps it is partly based on typology??? The values I hold that are the basis for my conscience are probably more closely related to those I suspect my grandfather held - but he died when I was 5 and he was very definitely an INTP with excellent EQ and high Fi.
 

ragashree

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Your conscience is the subconscious that you've been conditioned towards and acclimated to, given your upbringing and the culture/society that one is accustomed to (basically what you've just said yourself). There's nothing supernatural about one's conscience, as some like to believe; and it never takes the form of a cricket on your shoulder (strictly in my own observation :jew:).

Congratulations, this is the best ISTJ definition of personal conscience I've ever seen! :laugh: I don't think it works that way so often for people who who aren't Si-dom or at least secondary, however...
 

swordpath

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Congratulations, this is the best ISTJ definition of personal conscience I've ever seen! :laugh: I don't think it works that way so often for people who who aren't Si-dom or at least secondary, however...

I can't tell if you're mocking me or patting me on the back. Either way, expound please.
 

ragashree

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I bolded the relevant bit. ;) Do I need to elaborate further on why that's very typically Si reasoning?
 

swordpath

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It seems like good reasoning across the board, regardless of what type you are.

Anyways, what's your theory?
 

ragashree

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It's predicated on linking accumulated personal experience to your perception of social norms so far as I can see. Do you really think everyone else operates preferentially in that way?
 

swordpath

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Well obviously one's conscience is going to contain the slant of their own personal perspective...
 

Lark

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I tend to believe some of the developmental psychologists theories about conscientiousness and the development of conscience.

In that sense it is true that some people do not develop beyond simply internalising the traditions of their families, although I do think its possible to develop beyond that to more universal principles.

What makes something universal? Well, I personally would suggest it is to do with the complex working of empathy and sympathy in a healthy, adjusted and adaptive individual who has some measure of emotional and social intelligence and intellect. Its just possible that as a result of trauma, developmental deficits or adversity that a lot of people dont reach that point but from the diversity which exists, combined with authorities society muddles through.

Kohlberg's stages of moral development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

HighwayChild

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I take it as what's been said by a number of you already. Lets throw it in a pot and mix it up.

take this...

For me, conscience is the instinctive feeling that something is humane or not, fair or not, just or not, kind or not, and I more closely equate it to the concept of soul than anything.


and throw in some of this...
Your conscience is the subconscious that you've been conditioned towards and acclimated to, given your upbringing and the culture/society that one is accustomed to (basically what you've just said yourself). There's nothing supernatural about one's conscience, as some like to believe; and it never takes the form of a cricket on your shoulder (strictly in my own observation :jew:).

and presto!

It's predicated on linking accumulated personal experience to your perception of social norms so far as I can see. Do you really think everyone else operates preferentially in that way?
 

jtanSis1

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I believe it is my soul without the ego, thereby explaining why it corrects us.
 

Moiety

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This is more of philosophic approach than a literal one. This is another one of those conversations that tend to spring up at one or two in the morning when the shift gets boring.

To start with, let's get rolling with a quote from Socrates "Before we begin talking, we must decide what we're going to talk about."

It all started with this simple , unassuming question: "What is a conscience?"

You would not believe the chaos that ensued.
*****
After I stepped back and took a close look, I realized that our consciences tended to follow what was morally good for a particular society, as well as what our parents tell us is right. For instance, it is highly barbaric for a man in Western society to keep his wife locked away or beat her for simply glancing at another man. However, in Islamic areas, this is the traditions that they have followed for centuries.

So, by their morality, they have done nothing wrong.

I believe what most people call their "conscience" is simply a collection of what society, and your parents, have told you. Since I come from an extremely conservative home, sex outside of marriage is highly frowned upon and believed to be a sin.

But for someone from a more liberal household, sex outside of marriage is nothing wrong.

Thoughts anyone?

I think you'll find FPs slightly more free from such external influences in regard to conscience.

But sure, we are shaped by our surroundings. That is true for every aspect of our personalities though, not just our conscience. And you can hold extremely different views from your parents or even your friends - it is possible.
 

professor goodstain

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which is easier to live with? cutting the throat of one the night before s/he kills ten? or allowing it to happen because you won't take a life?
from there, imagine what made that decision.
or, the day after ten were spared/ten died and one was spared, imagine the repercussions. not to society but to one's self
 

Wonkavision

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Your conscience is the subconscious that you've been conditioned towards and acclimated to, given your upbringing and the culture/society that one is accustomed to....

I agree that this is where it starts, but I think it can (and often does) evolve over time, as you are exposed to new/other ideas.

One might reject some of the values of their native culture and/or adopt the values of another culture later in life.

(The Hero's Journey, anyone?)

Also, I think it's important to note that (at least in theory) people have different personalities, and therefore are not just carbon copies of their parents or mindless drones programmed to believe whatever they're told by society at large.

(Yes, I'm an ENFP. ;) :shrug: :D)
 
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