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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont agree with pushing the limits anymore.
    You call yourself an ENTJ?? jk

    Seriously though, saying limits have been reached is bordering on the apocalyptic. Thinking that there are limits in art is equivalent to saying there are limits to any experiences..to the universe itself. We could fast forward 500 years, and I bet it'll be pretty cool.. I hope at least. There's always something new to discover or do, and there will be an artist who captures a side to it that others don't see. Jerking off on cats though is not the way to go about it, I agree.

  2. #12
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is of course the Great Frontier, made famous by the American dream machine, Hollywood, in its oeuvre of Westerns.

    But they don't make Westerns any more simply because Westerns are the frontier of American literacy. And literacy is over. The Frontier is over.

    And interestingly the last gasp of the Frontier was the Moon shot. But all that happened on the Moon was that we turned round and saw the Whole Earth and soon we had the Whole Earth Catalogue, and most of all we discovered the Environment.

    The book is dead and the telephone is alive.

    And the internet is the computer connected to the telephone line.

    So right now, you are not reading a book, you are connected to me by the telephone line.

    But reactive literate that you are, you won't talk with me on the telephone, you are still addicted to the facsimile of electronic print. You can't bear to leave the printed page and cling to electronic text.

    You are yet to discover your own voice in your own tone.
    Victor, you wound me. I'm not talking about Americanism.. I don't want to be associated with anything but universal progress. Pushing a limit could very well apply to things you care about too. Julia Gillard and Australian voters have pushed a limit in her own way by being their first female PM. Pioneers, people who move life forward or different ways are everywhere.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    You call yourself an ENTJ?? jk

    Seriously though, saying limits have been reached is bordering on the apocalyptic. Thinking that there are limits in art is equivalent to saying there are limits to any experiences..to the universe itself. We could fast forward 500 years, and I bet it'll be pretty cool.. I hope at least. There's always something new to discover or do, and there will be an artist who captures a side to it that others don't see. Jerking off on cats though is not the way to go about it, I agree.
    I dont understand what this has to do with the ENTJ type but anyway, the rest of your post pretty much exemplifies what my sentiments are, perhaps there are some boundaries to cross in terms of technological advances, including biotech, personally I think the economy and its underpinning ideology is going to seriously obstruct that but normative limits sure have been reached. What sort of transgressive/progressive move is killing a cat and masturbating with it?

    Perhaps the next the next transcendence of limits are going to involve people setting or recognising or accepting more limits than before, anythings possible, I just know that with each generation, as part and parcel of the whole rebellious phase of growing up, each generation tries to transcend the norms of its elders but its pretty much exhausted the options by now.

  4. #14
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'm only kidding about the ENTJ comment, but if you're willing to pull back, latch on to the stupid guy and that poor cat, and draw the conclusion that we may be running out of ideas or inspiration, then it bums me out. You're not looking at all the angles on where art is thriving and doing new things (in a productive way), and being more pessimistic than necessary.. I was under the impression that ENTJ was bolder and less limited in their perspective than I am...but here you are saying we've exhausted options.

    Whew.. sorry for the analysis. Like I said, it was just a joke.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm only kidding about the ENTJ comment, but if you're willing to pull back, latch on to the stupid guy and that poor cat, and draw the conclusion that we may be running out of ideas or inspiration, then it bums me out. You're not looking at all the angles on where art is thriving and doing new things (in a productive way), and being more pessimistic than necessary.. I was under the impression that ENTJ was bolder and less limited in their perspective than I am...but here you are saying we've exhausted options.

    Whew.. sorry for the analysis. Like I said, it was just a joke.
    Yeah, I know, I took it as a joke.

    Although I'm interested to know what you mean about perspective now, its important to follow where truth leads but sometimes truth just leads you to the conclusion that even experiment and innovation have to have limits sometimes.

    In terms of art like a lot of other things the perpetual attempt to test limits to destruction isnt yielding more benefits than costs any longer, at least that's how I see it for the most part and I'm in favour of a lot of change to the status quo by some standards.

  6. #16
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    I like Lynda Barry's discussion of her journey as an artist and writer in her book "What It Is". It is not going to answer your question on what is art, but the concepts are interesting to ponder.
    At the center of everything we call 'the arts', and children call 'play', is something which seems somehow alive.

    It's not alive in the way you and I are alive, but it's certainly not dead.

    It's alive in the way our memory is alive.

    Alive in the way the ocean is alive and able to transport us and contain us.

    Alive in the way thinking is not, but experiencing is, made of both memory and imagination, this is the thing we mean by 'an image'
    The book is a meditation on images; their aliveness and the aliveness that we feel when we experience them.

  7. #17
    morose bourgeoisie
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    There is a branch of philosophy that deals with these questions. It's called aesthetics. I'm sure Wiki has an entry...

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