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  1. #21
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    No, good cannot be entirely objective. I agree.
    Though, this all awfully side-tracked anyway.
    I believe the original point of my topic was about self-confusion, in thinking something is bad and treating it like it's good, or vice-versa.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #22
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    No, good cannot be entirely objective. I agree.
    Though, this all awfully side-tracked anyway.
    I believe the original point of my topic was about self-confusion, in thinking something is bad and treating it like it's good, or vice-versa.
    "Ohhhh, crack is horrible for you and extremely addictive..." ::smokes some:: "but damn, it makes me feel oh-so-good".

    Just sounds like a lack of temperance to me. Crack is in almost every way a bad thing to put yourself through, but there must be something good that comes out of it or people wouldn't smoke it. The point is that all the things we choose throughout life are chosen because we decide it is good for us. Even suicide is considered good to the person committing it.

    The issue is that they need to zoom out a little and realize that the good they are choosing is a lesser good. Smoking crack may have its benefits, but obviously not smoking crack does more good for you overall. Committing suicide is a good option to someone experiencing a lot of despair, but choosing to persevere and to find a way out of it would probably end up making you happier. Choosing a lesser good is always easier.
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  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    "Ohhhh, crack is horrible for you and extremely addictive..." ::smokes some:: "but damn, it makes me feel oh-so-good".

    Just sounds like a lack of temperance to me. Crack is in almost every way a bad thing to put yourself through, but there must be something good that comes out of it or people wouldn't smoke it. The point is that all the things we choose throughout life are chosen because we decide it is good for us. Even suicide is considered good to the person committing it.

    The issue is that they need to zoom out a little and realize that the good they are choosing is a lesser good. Smoking crack may have its benefits, but obviously not smoking crack does more good for you overall. Committing suicide is a good option to someone experiencing a lot of despair, but choosing to persevere and to find a way out of it would probably end up making you happier. Choosing a lesser good is always easier.
    I actually don't believe that the "light side" is any harder than the "dark side".
    Some people seem to have a harder time with it than others.
    I also believe that two parts of a single person's mind can be against each other. Suicide is not necessarily all good to the person that commits it.


    I want to add something else regarding Nightning.
    I don't believe I said there was a universal good, I simply said there was an intuitive good, which is to say that the core of good and bad come from within one's own mind rather than a social environment.
    The social environment itself is nothing more than a collection of people with their own ideas.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I actually don't believe that the "light side" is any harder than the "dark side".
    Some people seem to have a harder time with it than others.
    I also believe that two parts of a single person's mind can be against each other.
    I believe that the difference between the "light side" and the "dark side" is that the "light side" usually offers no immediate gratification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Suicide is not necessarily all good to the person that commits it.
    But they chose that as their good over others. That was my point. No one chooses something bad for themselves (given that it may be bad FOR them). Someone committing suicide is looking for the "good" of relief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I also believe that two parts of a single person's mind can be against each other.
    You'll have to explain this one to me. It sounds like your talking about a conscience or shoulder angels to me.

    I think I've lost track of what the question your asking is. I thought you were asking why people will willingly know something is bad yet choose it as something good. (ie Adam and Eve)
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  5. #25
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Ten cookies. Two people. You and me. No cookies to waste!
    Case 1: You have all ten cookies to yourself. Good for you. Bad for me.
    Case 2: I have all ten cookies to myself. Good for me. Bad for you.
    Case 3: I have five cookies and you have five. Good and bad - both for us.

    Indistinguishable from an observer's sight, one and two.
    He nods at three.
    What about you
    and what about me?
    Not really.

  6. #26
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Some people would dearly love to stand for something no matter what it did to them just so there was a well defined point to life. Some people go through life always picking their most preferred option, circumstances allowing. Personally I always found the latter to be more boring and less passionate.
    --------------------

    Question, are you thinking of "the ends justifies the means" in this piece of mental meandering? In other words do you understand why someone would do something "bad" to achieve an end result which was "good"? I'd assume so.
    --------------------

    Of course there is the thinking of good and bad being almost entirely subjective words (Esp as "bad" was used to represent "cool" things at one time). However I think at the heart of what you're saying (please correct me if this is wrong) is that if people decide that something is against their principles/ values then why do they pursue those very things unforced?

    I guess one answer would be that they are not as committed to their principles/ values as they claim or that perhaps they re-evaluated the commitment in the light of the new circumstance. Sometimes what once seemed impossible now seems mundane and expected.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #27
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I want to add something else regarding Nightning.
    I don't believe I said there was a universal good, I simply said there was an intuitive good, which is to say that the core of good and bad come from within one's own mind rather than a social environment.
    The social environment itself is nothing more than a collection of people with their own ideas.
    I believe this has been pointed out already. But collection of people with their own ideas can form an "average" idea of good and bad socially. Both of which are readily accessible in people's minds. So you can do comparisons of "good" as in "fun" for the self with "bad" socially.

  8. #28
    Junior Member Benjamin's Avatar
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    Personally, I believe "good" and "evil" are just words. The meaning behind these words is just a concept in the mind of the average person to justify their actions. Some people believe that everything they do is "good". This includes if they kill other people or cause harm to others. Hitler is a decent example of such a person. These concepts are defined by the human mind and brought about by society. Religion, parents, school, etc. All of these institutions shape the human perception of "good" and "evil". All this means is that the concepts of "good" and "bad" are in the mind and are ultimately defined by society.

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