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  1. #11
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I can't imagine that a god would need our worship to feel validated or secure. I also feel no compulsion to worship, even if I was totally convinced there was a God.


    In this very moment, agony exists
    Unbeknownst to an unforgiving force.
    Some pray, some beg, without consolation.
    The pure lie beneath us while the scum walk the earth
    Why can't we heal them?
    Why can't we see them?
    Can we keep hoping, no one knows for sure
    Blamelessly renouncing, guilt has no bearing
    I must believe that there is a better way.
    Beholder of justice
    Who have you abandoned?
    Beholder of justice
    Why have you forgotten us?

    Why, why have you forgotten us?
    Why, why must the innocent die?

    If I could reverse this I swear I would
    I would take the pain away, I swear to you.
    Broken souls and misery it seems we're too far gone
    Now we can only ask and wish for our complete redemption

    Beholder of justice
    Who have you abandoned?
    Beholder of justice
    Why have you forgotten us?

    Why, does such innocence suffer
    While the evil prospers?
    Why, beholder of justice?
    Why, have you forgotten us?

    How can I stand by your judgment?

  2. #12
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    I can't imagine that a god would need our worship to feel validated or secure. I also feel no compulsion to worship, even if I was totally convinced there was a God.
    Do you/would you worship anything else?

  3. #13
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Do you/would you worship anything else?
    If there was something/someone that provides unconditional support and love to an honest person, sure.

    According to Christianity, I'm damned because I don't know any better. I fail to have faith in something I can't see or feel, and apparently I'm less of a person for it and deserving of punishment.

    If that's true, then hell awaits me, and frankly I'd rather be there. I'd prefer to be on my own in a lake of fire, than kickin' it with a two-faced tyrant in the clouds.

  4. #14
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    For any religion, what is the value of turning belief from passive to active: Engaging in worship, or rituals, etc?
    Social control, basically.

    Individuals left to their own devices rarely feel the need to worship the Sun, dictators, God(s), ancestors etc. until an outside influence reinforces it. It's not always a terrible thing though.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    It is quite cute, actually, like babies talking to mirrors.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    If there was something/someone that provides unconditional support and love to an honest person, sure.

    According to Christianity, I'm damned because I don't know any better. I fail to have faith in something I can't see or feel, and apparently I'm less of a person for it and deserving of punishment.

    If that's true, then hell awaits me, and frankly I'd rather be there. I'd prefer to be on my own in a lake of fire, than kickin' it with a two-faced tyrant in the clouds.
    Yes. You have made a number of mistakes in this post which leads me to believe you know nothing about Christianity or the Christians you have spoken to know nothing about it either.

  7. #17
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yes. You have made a number of mistakes in this post which leads me to believe you know nothing about Christianity or the Christians you have spoken to know nothing about it either.
    If Beat never accepts Jesus as his personal lord and savior, how will he get into Heaven?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Social control, basically.

    Individuals left to their own devices rarely feel the need to worship the Sun, dictators, God(s), ancestors etc. until an outside influence reinforces it. It's not always a terrible thing though.
    Yeah, I can see it, for centuries mankind has been conned by wily bad guys fooling them with religion, come on, you've got to be kiddding me?

    The logic of these arguments is entirely phony, do you really believe that everyone is a sap? When did you start seeing the matrix?

    I asked the question about about worshipping anything for a good reason, if you can imagine worshipping someone you've fallen in love with then you should be able to imagine worshipping God in the same way, because that is what both man and God desire is a relationship. Nice blinkers you fashioned yourself there.

    Myths about sky tyrant are BS.

  9. #19
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yes. You have made a number of mistakes in this post which leads me to believe you know nothing about Christianity or the Christians you have spoken to know nothing about it either.
    I've grown up and been immersed in Christianity since I was born. I've heard many schools of thought within the religion and not just one person or one group's teachings.

    Would you mind explaining to me where I'm wrong?

    P.S. a "God of the Clouds" wasn't meant to be taken literally... Nor was "a lake of fire". I know many of these illustrations are figurative. You get my point though. Maybe?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    If Beat never accepts Jesus as his personal lord and savior, how will he get into Heaven?
    I'm not sure who does and doesnt go to heaven, I know if he's highly resistant to the idea of heaven he wont go there, same as if there's anywhere you totally detest the idea of going you simply wont go there.

    What do you mean by accepts Jesus as his personal lord and saviour? What does that look like? I'm not interested in semantics, sophistry and word play if that's what you're imagining here, Beat or anyone else is free to believe whatever they want and I'm not aiming to change that.

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