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  1. #11
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Pretty hardcore, did someone screw you over?
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    Pretty hardcore, did someone screw you over?
    It sounds like a paradigm shift from social conscience to an extreme version of small scale mutual aid, personal not political, with an emphasis upon loyalty.

  3. #13
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    Pretty hardcore, did someone screw you over?
    This is a reaction to the over-all picture that I see before me.
    Society in its entirety. It's rotten and corrupt, I don't see why the comfort is more worth than true freedom to do what you want.
    There is no easy way to be free. It could even be bloody and violent.
    But it would be natural to many of us.
    Many of us are not born to wear a suit and tie, even if we look great in such attire.
    I do realize that many people would die. Hell, maybe even me! I'm certainly not immortal.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    It sounds like a paradigm shift from social conscience to an extreme version of small scale mutual aid, personal not political, with an emphasis upon loyalty.

    Yes. I realized that I have been fooling myself since I was eight.
    That was when I first gained a political awareness and started leaning to the leftist totalitarian side.
    Today? Center-stage or left and far removed from the belief in a system.
    Groups should have laws and codes, and one should be able to choose his or her own grouping out of free will.
    One shouldn't get born into a humongously large group (aka country) that forces you to abide by their rules, or suffer imprisonment and persecution.
    That's just sickening. Location shouldn't have anything to do with what laws you have to follow.





    Anyway. I am not in a gang. Maybe in the future, maybe not.
    I am thinking about it, to be quite honest. It all depends on what results my thinking yields.
    I do object to some activities of most groups, though.
    I think drugs and prostitution are filthy things, and most groups deal with either or both.
    I'd not touch that, or theft from common workers or small-business owners, with a ten-foot pole.
    I never felt like preying on the weak and innocent.
    Shark hunting, as opposed to pulling up little fish, is way more profitable, and society doesn't care as much, either.
    If a drug dealer disappears without a trace, nobody would care but his idiot customers.

    As to the matter if i'm antisocial... Yes, possibly. I have anarchistic sympathies.
    If I am bitter? Yes. Why wouldn't I be?
    Anyway, maybe I was a bit forceful in my choice of words here and there.
    Mental and physical brutality, is indeed good... But I completely understand and support the fact that honey is more efficient than shit.
    Most of the time. Until you meet a hard bastard that won't budge.
    Then, you "crush". Not just randomly because you can. That's stupidity.
    I never liked senseless violence. It's a tool like any other, just a continuation where negotiations fail.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #14
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    It would seem that I could agree with some of your code on some days. Then other days not.

    I am a kitten playing with a ball of yarn... That ball of yarn may be someone's head, but to me it is a still a ball of yarn. I mean, I am somewhat playful in my "crushing". Not code-like. Or I'm just actually playing with a ball of yarn. That's fun too. I have one code that I like to follow, and it's very typical, the "Do unto others" thing. Golden rule. But I like stepping in on those who don't do it. I would not be so passive as to not trip a thief.

    Anyways.. I don't know if I could come to all of the same conclusions as you. You sound like you're trying to cover the bases of basically being an honorable person, and one who doesn't take any shit or let people profit from hurting the innocent. That's cool.. I'm an IFP, but still along the same lines. As for gangs, I don't know if there are any that meet your requirements. In my experience, they all suck. Perhaps you should form your own. The only thing I suggest is always be aware of dynamics and details (ack...yeah, I'm suggesting you be a sensor..hmm, maybe that's going too far). i.e. Always keeping an eye on when to hammer down or befriend someone, etc.. Imo, the real question is always a matter of "when" or "where" or "how". Not if we want to do it. Some things aren't always what they appear. And sometimes we hammer down too fast or in the wrong place or if we get in a mode of carrying ourselves with a hammer in hand at all times, we scare the shit out of good people..and we end up resembling a little of what we hate.

  5. #15

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    YLJ have you read Ursula Le Guin's The Dispossessed, its a pretty good book, its subtitled an ambiguous utopia, the central character moves between two societies, one an anarchist collective and another a capitalist police state, he sees the worst of each as the utopianism of the anarchist world deteriorates into authoritarianism and the other as it breaks down into a revolution. Interesting read.

    I've got to say that I'm still a socialist, I was vaguely aware of socialist values from I was about eleven, when I was about twenty or twenty one I moved from totalitarian quasi-stalinist position to sympathies with anarchists but it didnt last that long, I began to think, and still do, that none of these ideologies accurately reflects the radically mixed nature of the economy and political structures in the world.

    I tend to believe that there's personal, cultural and structural sides to all the things I dont like the economy, state, society and realistically I'll only ever influence the first two, to be honest I think those two sides are the most important. Realistically the institutions and structures of our society are always playing catch up, most of the time they dont need revolutions to catch up but sometimes they do.

    That's maybe simplifying it because there's a great deal of lies and pretense in politics and national culture sometimes, for instance in the US I think that the "furies" that the establishment released to motivate the fight against the USSR are coming back to bite them in the form of the tea partiers etc. when they have to find an alternative way of circulating the money other than a wasteful arms race. Its how I see it though pretty much.

    Thanks for sharing man because there's nothing I like more than hearing how people view these things, see if they've had similar reflective turns to me.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    As to the matter if i'm antisocial... Yes, possibly. I have anarchistic sympathies.
    If I am bitter? Yes. Why wouldn't I be?
    Anyway, maybe I was a bit forceful in my choice of words here and there.
    Mental and physical brutality, is indeed good... But I completely understand and support the fact that honey is more efficient than shit.
    Most of the time. Until you meet a hard bastard that won't budge.
    Then, you "crush". Not just randomly because you can. That's stupidity.
    I never liked senseless violence. It's a tool like any other, just a continuation where negotiations fail.
    I dont think anarchistic sympathies are anti-social, not if you consider Colin Ward or Rudolf Rocker's takes on the deal, not at all, its about personal responsibility and self-government and dealing with your own consequences.

    Why you bitter man? I wouldnt be, change comes with growth and that's how it is. I'm not sure that its too stark, there's philosophers, some of them capitalists, conservatives, good members of establishment society that use worse and pull less punches. They quote Capone now not Smith.

    As to crushing people and stuff you should consider The Godfather, the book not the movies, its pretty clear about the mafia's philosophy, they wherent into violence the way that the Young Lords or 19th Street Gang or their like are, they used to use violence sparingly, that way it never lost its shock value. Like the Badder-Meinhoff used to say "Kill one educate a thousand"

  7. #17
    Senor Membrane
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    I think the key here is not about anarchy. It can't work in the way it should since there will be always people who will try to get more power. If not in your village, then in the next one. So, it is always just a temporary solution, though in many ways it would be better. I think democracy would work a lot better on a village scale.

    But the thing that I like most about this thread is... that the society as it is, big and uncomprehensive, will fuck you up if you let it. And the only way you can be respected by your generosity, good deeds and your live-and-let-live attitude, is to have a circle of friends. It is an anarchistic unit inside the society, in a way. But, when you have that clan of yours, what to do next? You can only try to help them in every way possible. There is no revolution. The best you can do is start a commune and grow your own veggies. You don't need to bomb white house in order to escape the society. Shure, you still have to pay taxes, but so what, it is small price to pay, especially since you wouldn't be making much money on the farm.

  8. #18
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    I have effectively detached myself from almost every physical aspect of this life, barring evolutionary needs to mate. It started out because of my religion, I took it quite literally and seriously. I was to live a life void of worries about what to eat, how I was going to survive through times of trouble because I had Him to lean on. I truly believe that this will never change. I will always need something stronger to lean on because that is how a base creature stays alive. This life should not be wasted, but concern for health should not become an obsession either. If you get sick, you deal with it, if you are maimed, you deal with it. It sounds harsh, but events done cannot be undone and the quicker you can move past such horrible things the more time you can spend examining life. This being said, I have extremely paranoid parents, for the most part... and as such I have tendencies towards paranoia as well, but I do everything to keep this within reasonable limits.

    As for life itself? I don't know the ending and we can believe and we can hope that this isn't it, but if it is what choice do we get in the end that would deteur such a fact. We merely accept and move on, or stop. I often think about dying and what would happen if you ceased to exist. It's hard to fathom, but regret, or any feeling whatsoever would stop existing and you would've never realized what happened, and you wouldn't even be able to realize or understand your state, because you no longer exist. It is ironically quite scary because we think of not existing as a bad thing, when the term itself is COMPLETELY neutral.

    I will say that self-preservation is keeping me alive, my internal instincts do not want me left behind without leaving something behind and so I can't off myself, though technically it wouldn't matter. I also believe that God exists we are just too presumptious to believe that he would keep us alive beyond death, we don't know, we never will and due to this fact we can only go so far as to assume that there is a God, which I believe is a fact.

    Living is fun, for the most part, and we are to see this as merely a path to something greater. You can believe this, it is your right and I find that it can partially be true, but to live this life as if it were a test seems rather strange to me. If anything I'd say life is more like homework, where the test would be death.

  9. #19
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think anarchistic sympathies are anti-social, not if you consider Colin Ward or Rudolf Rocker's takes on the deal, not at all, its about personal responsibility and self-government and dealing with your own consequences.

    Why you bitter man? I wouldnt be, change comes with growth and that's how it is. I'm not sure that its too stark, there's philosophers, some of them capitalists, conservatives, good members of establishment society that use worse and pull less punches. They quote Capone now not Smith.

    As to crushing people and stuff you should consider The Godfather, the book not the movies, its pretty clear about the mafia's philosophy, they wherent into violence the way that the Young Lords or 19th Street Gang or their like are, they used to use violence sparingly, that way it never lost its shock value. Like the Badder-Meinhoff used to say "Kill one educate a thousand"

    Yes. You know how you get a certain responsibility when you're an adult...
    But truly, we are never left without babysitters in this way of life.
    The thing is, too, that society is way too intrusive and it enforces many, many things that some or most people don't believe in.
    Like this whole thing with filesharing. It's ridiculous.

    And yes, they do...

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I think the key here is not about anarchy. It can't work in the way it should since there will be always people who will try to get more power. If not in your village, then in the next one. So, it is always just a temporary solution, though in many ways it would be better. I think democracy would work a lot better on a village scale.

    But the thing that I like most about this thread is... that the society as it is, big and uncomprehensive, will fuck you up if you let it. And the only way you can be respected by your generosity, good deeds and your live-and-let-live attitude, is to have a circle of friends. It is an anarchistic unit inside the society, in a way. But, when you have that clan of yours, what to do next? You can only try to help them in every way possible. There is no revolution. The best you can do is start a commune and grow your own veggies. You don't need to bomb white house in order to escape the society. Shure, you still have to pay taxes, but so what, it is small price to pay, especially since you wouldn't be making much money on the farm.

    That is a point. Maybe the key would be a society that has removed two thirds of its laws, leaving the elementary stuff that enables road building and national defense, health care etc.
    Policing should be left to citizens. Maybe like how it works in sheriff departments.
    A bit like in the "wild west".

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #20
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Well, I would say that many of those points, if applied correctly, can get you killed rather quickly. So, if that's your aim, good luck.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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