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Thread: Is God Evil?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I don't know how anyone can base their world views on conflicting texts written by numerous different individuals with their conflicting views of God and Jesus and whatever else.

    If God exists he believes in free will. But back in the Old Testament he was testing all his rules.
    Hmm, I dont believe in solo scripture so I dont have as great a problem with the first part of that as some Christians would, particularly literalists, although I would say that in addition to the bible there are other books which I consider are divinely inspired too, Dante's Divine Comedie, Milton's Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained, works of Shakespeare, Faust by Goethe.

    I also believe some of the explanations for apparent contradictions which where provided by Jung, Jung described how he believed that with each life and death God directly experienced his creation, most completely in the instance of Jesus but equally in terms of each and all of us, in the process God and man develop simultaneously insights into one another.

    That's a pretty vulgarised version of what he was trying to describe I'm sure and Mystic Tater can dash in and correct me if he wishes to because he's bit more of an authority on Jung than I am.

    This would account for the apparent changes spanning the bible, both in mans expectations and interpretation of the nature of God and also in his apparent intervention, non-intervention and incarnation and life and ministry, persecution, torture, murder and death as JC.

    I personally see God as providing the law, it didnt work, he appeared in person, that didnt work either, I wouldnt blame him if he simply gave up on man and left the earth spinning in space to no purpose and no end but I believe instead he endures because abandoning something that's frustrating is human not divine behaviour, in each generation he tried to redeem the world, the tale of "one good man" and even Johnny Cash's songs on this note make a lot of sense.

    Its not fuel for the negative argument but to be truthful an uncaring, unloving, complicit God wouldnt have experienced directly the shit that JC did through the incarnation, this humble, suffering, martyred God contrasts with other faiths I believe and as a result those other faiths strike me as more the projections and wishes of mankind. Human, all too human.

  2. #12
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    as the type of kid who tended to like the villains when growing up, I found Sunday School class (mandatory thanks to my mommy!) to be delightfully interesting with all of the stories of smiting, plagues, raining of sulphur... I'm going to have to agree with Stewie Griffin on this... God comes across as pretty evil in the Bible

    this probably is part of the reason I never really beleived in such things
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  3. #13
    Member Stol11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I don't know how anyone can base their world views on conflicting texts written by numerous different individuals with their conflicting views of God and Jesus and whatever else.

    If God exists he believes in free will. But back in the Old Testament he was testing all his rules.

    The whole idea of free will is open to speculation. I mean if god is all knowing then surely he already knows what you are going to do hence you do not have free will as your entire life can be plotted and observed by god. if he is not all knowing then that means he is imperfect and therefore flawed going against most monotheistic concepts of a deity. (In Hellenic and ancient cultures the gods were all fundamentally flawed, which makes a lot more sense in my view)

    The question of whether god is good or evil though. Firstly as it is most likely that he doesn’t exist that is an erroneous statement anyway. The only evidence however is from the bible and to me it shows a God that is a complete sociopath. No need to go into the details. Also it is clear that he is happy to allow suffering from non man made forces (if you don't believe this is the wages of sin) where is the free will argument for that? As i have already said he already knows about all the evil that is going to happen, so he is quite happy to sit and allow things like the holocaust to transpire, showing that his empathy is somewhat limited. In the bible he often intervenes, why not in modern times? Surely he wants to limit the total ration of suffering? He does often interfere with free will and did so regularly, often for trivial matters, why was there not an equivalent of Jonah or Paul in 1933, 39 or even 44? He/she/it can after all apparently do anything. Its almost as if the books in bible were elaborate fabrications written by men!

  4. #14
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    God seems more grandiose or has a severe case of BPD that he/she/it's not treating correctly more than evil.

    Get ready, the drastic mood swing is coming soon!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hmm, I dont believe in solo scripture so I dont have as great a problem with the first part of that as some Christians would, particularly literalists, although I would say that in addition to the bible there are other books which I consider are divinely inspired too, Dante's Divine Comedie, Milton's Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained, works of Shakespeare, Faust by Goethe.

    I also believe some of the explanations for apparent contradictions which where provided by Jung, Jung described how he believed that with each life and death God directly experienced his creation, most completely in the instance of Jesus but equally in terms of each and all of us, in the process God and man develop simultaneously insights into one another.

    That's a pretty vulgarised version of what he was trying to describe I'm sure and Mystic Tater can dash in and correct me if he wishes to because he's bit more of an authority on Jung than I am.

    This would account for the apparent changes spanning the bible, both in mans expectations and interpretation of the nature of God and also in his apparent intervention, non-intervention and incarnation and life and ministry, persecution, torture, murder and death as JC.

    I personally see God as providing the law, it didnt work, he appeared in person, that didnt work either, I wouldnt blame him if he simply gave up on man and left the earth spinning in space to no purpose and no end but I believe instead he endures because abandoning something that's frustrating is human not divine behaviour, in each generation he tried to redeem the world, the tale of "one good man" and even Johnny Cash's songs on this note make a lot of sense.

    Its not fuel for the negative argument but to be truthful an uncaring, unloving, complicit God wouldnt have experienced directly the shit that JC did through the incarnation, this humble, suffering, martyred God contrasts with other faiths I believe and as a result those other faiths strike me as more the projections and wishes of mankind. Human, all too human.
    I never battled or researched too in depth into religion because I believe in arriving to my own conclusions with lack of bias. I'm perfectly agnostic.

    What you consider projections and wishes of mankind....I agree with you, but would still say the same thing about the Christian God.

    I don't claim that if God exists, he is evil. I don't think he's good either though. Or if he is either of these things, he is them in relative isolation. Sounds like beating the dead horse...but he IS omnipotent, so if the point was to directly influence us...he could with but a thought.

    I don't quite get what an omnipotent would want with an experiment like us though. He would have foreseen where we would arrive....he is all-knowing as well... Maybe he can switch those abilities off....but why would he? Out of boredom? Does God even feel though? And if he does does he suffer with our own pain via empathy? And if so why does he continue with the experiment?

    EDIT: Stol11 Only read your post after writing this one but I basically agree with you. Yeah...how can empathy, free will, intervention....all live together? And I share the cynicism of your last statement. That aren't always conscious fabrications though.

    EDIT2: Just reread my post. My god...my english syntax is getting atrocious. I'm becoming dyslexic and lazy about it. Lazy enough to not correct my post even though I'm complaining about it :P

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    hahaha point taken. I agree with you entirely of course. I do not believe the many authors were part of some sort of literary conspiracy; it’s just unfortunate that modern historical scholarship was not around then. I would be more inclined to believe the bible as a historical text if it was properly referenced with footnotes and citations!

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    In the Old Testament, God was demonstrating the Law, where man fell short, and received the punishment, and He was working through one nation, to whom the Law and the temple system were committed, but even they ultimately failed in that.

    So in the New Testament, after the lesson of the Law was written in history, God then reveals grace.

    Also, the capture of women in conquered people were not "rapes" like in modern war, but rather common arranged marriage. Back in those centuries, women usually were "taken" in marriage ("given" by the father or tribe) anyway.
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    You can't analyze the behavior of omnipotent God through the human viewpoint, because you could not understand who He is with such a limited understanding.

    23"(AH)Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should (AI)turn from his ways and live?
    24"But when a righteous man (AJ)turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? (AK)All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his (AL)treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.
    25"Yet you say, '(AM)The way of the Lord is not right ' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is (AN)My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? (Ezekial 18:23-25 - before Christ)

    8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,"
    declares the LORD.

    9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)


    If you want to do that and see what God "is" in human terms, you have to look at the life of Jesus... there was no evil in him whatsoever.

    8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
    9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. (John 15:8-11)



    To interpret... God is eternally just and fair. This quality remained unchanged both before and after Jesus, except that afterwards God's law had been fulfilled and all of humankind was justified by their faith in Jesus' saving action.

    Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (John 19:30)

  9. #19
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    If setting humanity up to fail isn't evil, it's at the very least a dick move.

  10. #20
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Did you just call G_d a dick?
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
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