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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Transmigration of the soul

    Reincarnation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Transmigration of the soul or reincarnation, anyone interested or believe in this?

    I've got to say that its mainly a literary interest for me, it does in some ways in the buddhist belief reflect a state of being which I would describe as purgatory, ie being unable to break a cycle of death and rebirth and experience the after life, however the buddhists suggest that there is no personal survival in death, so that once you die, if you succeed in breaking the cycle you cease to be altogether so I dont know how that is reconciled.

    PKD's treatment of it is not the only one I'm familiar with, there was another in which the souls of deceased holocaust victims where reborn into Aryan bodies after a Nazi victory in WW2 which was interesting aswell and based upon a Hindu idea that suffering in a present life is caused either by trauma or wrong doing in another.

    It also interests me the manner in which a sould is conceptualised, in any case these spiritual accounts describe the soul as being something which is you and a body just something which you temporarily possess, athiestic and agnostic accounts seem to turn that on its head, the body IS you and you either do not or may not possess a transcendent soul.

  2. #2
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...athiestic and agnostic accounts seem to turn that on its head, the body IS you and you either do not or may not possess a transcendent soul.
    This is more and more being questioned by science as studies like the Intention Experiment are researched. The energies we have at subatomic level are shown to hang around for a short while after the body, animal and plant too (which belies the exclusive humans' only having a soul belief), ceases to live.

    In the 1960s Australian Nobel Physicist Sir John Eccles conducted experiments that showed sub-atomic electrical charges in 3 of the 5 laminae of the cerebral cortex interacted with some unknown energy external to the human body.

    All major religions talk of the power of group prayer. I wonder if religion is not just man's attempts to explain and control the vast and inexplicable mysteries of something so great we cannot comprehend it???

    The Scientific Team | The Intention Experiment
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  3. #3
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    well all atoms have an electrical charge so I don't know why humans and animals having it would prove a soul. When a body dies the atoms don't cease to exist.

    I guess my point is, until there is definitive proof of a soul then I'm not going to concern myself with it.

    Though technically reincarnation does exist... just not a continuation of consciousness.

    And there's no evidence for dualism either.

    The intention website just looks like a call for prayer without calling it prayer. They don't have a list of any of their credentials and there's no sign of peer review at all. It seems like they'd have a hard time controlling for placebo effect and other things, the experiment itself seems to be flawed and unfalsifiable.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

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    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I have such mixed feelings about this that I don't think I'll ever resolve it in my own mind. I was raised Christian and to believe in the power of prayer, especially group prayer, and I believe I have seen things result from prayer. But then I think about things that I am pretty firmly convinced are pure bullshit, like people convinced that if enough of them concentrate hard enough, they can move a building. My first thought is "too many acid hits, shame about that."

    So as for the soul thing, it hurts to think we don't have a soul because it hurts to think this is all there is, when life is so beautiful (even if it sucks -- just in general the fact of living is beautiful and I feel it's a gift). For it to entirely vanish after just this short little stay seems pointless. But then I feel sure this is a matter of perspective, and the individual soul is an illusion to begin with, and everything has Buddha nature. I think everything is divine. But if everything is divine, nothing is.

    So I don't know. But these ideas are like some beautiful jewel that you can just keep turning over and over in your mind, enjoying the facets, so they're always a pleasure to talk about. Depending on what facet is showing itself to me on any given day, I'll be convinced of its truth for however long I have a glimpse of it, until the next thing reveals itself.

  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    So as for the soul thing, it hurts to think we don't have a soul because it hurts to think this is all there is, when life is so beautiful (even if it sucks -- just in general the fact of living is beautiful and I feel it's a gift). For it to entirely vanish after just this short little stay seems pointless.
    Or you could look at life as even more precious, because it is but fleeting, and once something is gone, it's gone.

    So you stop worrying about eternal bliss and focus more on making your actions count in this life.

    ....So many ways to spin it around.
    And no way to show that one is definitively correct...

    But these ideas are like some beautiful jewel that you can just keep turning over and over in your mind, enjoying the facets, so they're always a pleasure to talk about. Depending on what facet is showing itself to me on any given day, I'll be convinced of its truth for however long I have a glimpse of it, until the next thing reveals itself.
    I like the gem analogy. It suggests that views are just different ways of viewing the whole, which we cannot see all of simultaneously -- part of it is always hidden from view when we take one perspective in order to study it.

    I would like to say I have a soul.
    But the most I can say is that I have a body.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Or you could look at life as even more precious, because it is but fleeting, and once something is gone, it's gone.

    So you stop worrying about eternal bliss and focus more on making your actions count in this life.
    This, also think of all the ways that you could have not existed, it's practically a statistical impossibility that you exist, yet here you are.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  7. #7
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Whatever actually happens or doesn't happen, I've never been worried about. Sometimes curious but never worried.

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelholic View Post
    This, also think of all the ways that you could have not existed, it's practically a statistical impossibility that you exist, yet here you are.
    It's only a statistical improbability if you specify that "you" exactly as you are had to exist. It's not a statistical improbability that some being you would self-identify as "you" existed, because there are countless permutations of who "you" might have been.

    Not much different than the "shared birthday" puzzler; in a room of 50 people or so, at least two will have identical birthdays, but it only works if you don't define which of the 365 birthdays it has to be.

    So in terms of suggesting a miracle happened, no, it doesn't.
    But in terms of suggesting that "you" are truly unique and precious, yes, you are.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #9
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    I think the notion of a soul is a result of a very strong human desire to survive, so to conceptualize ourselves as fundamentally immortal is comforting. I don't like the idea of karma stretching across multiple lifetimes, as if current suffering can be justified somehow in ways we cannot reconcile.

    I do think we are immortal in the sense that matter and energy are perpetually recycled. Heck, the "me" of a decade ago might be more or less gone by now, regenerated over the years and strung together with an illusion of memory. I'm not sure if it's comforting or disturbing that the past me might be dead in a sense.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Or you could look at life as even more precious, because it is but fleeting, and once something is gone, it's gone.

    So you stop worrying about eternal bliss and focus more on making your actions count in this life.
    QFT!

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