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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    ...unless you're a reflection of that being, though I never said our qualities were greater. It keeps coming down to everything being subjective (even infinity). We can be as infinite as God along one dimension, while still retaining our material limits.
    Even as our imagination is subject to finite reality it too is finite. Even at the cutting edge of human creation after trillions of years, it is still based on finite ideas even though they are not bound by reality. Infinity is not subjective, it's always the same because it cannot grow or shrink, or change at all really.

    In fact, not only are we limited in what we create, everything good we are and we create has been given by God and so should be fully credited to Him. The only purpose of making comparisons between ourselves and even with God because we want to take credit/glorify ourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    True, we can't prove it. "Reality" in the most common sense is simply a widely (very widely) held belief of what constitutes the world we live in, and anyone who believes differently can go jump off a roof.

    Still, perhaps death is also an illusion. The truth itself is unknowable, for the moment at least. Anything you say in response to this will be subjective, anything I say in response to that will be subjective. Let's just leave it at that.
    our idea of reality, what we think of reality, etc. is subjective belief but it does not change it simply because we want to think of it one way or another. I think, perhaps, this is not something people are comfortable with because it accentuates how very, very little we know. But this doesn't mean the truth is unknowable, it just means that there is a flaw in the method of human understanding. The truth is actually quite simple, and within the truth there is even a reason why we don't see it/cant understand it/dont speak it... that is, the original lie: not only are we made in God's image we can be like God, creating reality with our words. However, since this itself is a lie, the reality we attempt to create with our words is also a lie.

    " 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
    3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it." (John 1:1-5)

    By dictating our own reality, we also take the position of judging good from bad when we don't actually know better. It's not that reality, good, and bad are subjective in themselves, but our undereducated ideas about them. This is to our own destruction (jumping off the roof is just an exaggerated example).

    It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth. (Matthew 15:8)

    For there is no truth in their mouth; their inmost self is destruction; their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongue. (Psalms 5:9)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    Exactly. "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted." What do you think it means?
    I think truth is all-encompasing and unchanging, and within it the human mind is inspired by and perpetuated by lies about it. We are so deep in this shit that many people pretend that truth doesn't exist anymore. We are so deep in it that the only freedom from the web of deception of our design (originally inspired by Satan) is not to try and become an absolute reflection of truth (as we are already inspired by lies, lies cannot inspire the truth) but to merely attempt to recognize the truth when we see it, and in doing so, become inspired by and slowly begin to reflect the truth.

    6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

  2. #42
    Member promethathustra's Avatar
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    "In the beginning was the word and the was with god and the word was god." The Word became flesh...as it does in each generation!
    "This fearless one always is the same in essence,however.He is Holy heresy born stout lacking the ability to cower or break.The Universe is transparent to him." Me

  3. #43
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Oh, and God seems to be this guy constantly getting laid. I always hear these girls screaming out his name while in the throes of passion.

  4. #44
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    By the way, if this topic interests you, here is some suggested reading:

    Amazon.com: Do I Know God?: Finding Certainty in Life's Most Important Relationship (9781590529362): Tullian Tchividjian: Books

    Do I Know God?: Finding Certainty in Life's Most Important Relationship

    It's written by one of the grandson's of Billy Graham who, despite growing up around lots of information about God struggled to make sense of it's everyday implications.

  5. #45
    Member promethathustra's Avatar
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    Try R.W. Emerson! Have read all the worlds bibles.
    "This fearless one always is the same in essence,however.He is Holy heresy born stout lacking the ability to cower or break.The Universe is transparent to him." Me

  6. #46
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    True, we can't prove it. "Reality" in the most common sense is simply a widely (very widely) held belief of what constitutes the world we live in, and anyone who believes differently can go jump off a roof.

    Still, perhaps death is also an illusion. The truth itself is unknowable, for the moment at least. Anything you say in response to this will be subjective, anything I say in response to that will be subjective. Let's just leave it at that.
    I used to think this way but then I realized that this sort of thinking is absolutely incorrect. This is nihilism at its worst. Surely subjective truths exist; some say that there is a god and some say that there is not - some would even say that the presence of multiple truths causes the idea of truth to self-detonate, resulting in truth being mostly untrue. This is true. Now, even though the subjective exists, there is also the objective; three balls are absolutely three balls, a million stars are absolutely a million stars, etc. These are undeniable statements.

    Secondly, in the world of subjectivity, not all truths are equal. There exists truths that are more reasonable or more acceptable than others and it is these are truths that take precedence over the rest. Some truths are even irrelevant and these are often disregarded as nonsense.

    Also, you might notice, that a perfect mind (a god mind) is an absolutely objective one. Again we see an extreme difference between man and god.

    Exactly. "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted." What do you think it means?
    That only makes sense if you refuse to accept reality as it is. This is why they placed it into Assassins Creed - It fit into the plotline of a fictional tale..
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    I've hit upon an epiphany. First, there exists a certain form of logic (don't ask me what it's called) that deals in inferring the existance of one thing based off the existance of another, similar thing. Secondly, not to sound concieted, but I am a very imaginative person, with a personal world (literal, detailed, and persistant) contained within my mind. Therefore, by the afore mentioned logic, we may assume that, if I and others like me are capable of creating such worlds, than some higher mind could have created the one we live in.

    Inevitably, some people "grow out" of imagination as they get older, perhaps through peer pressure, perhaps simply because life distracts them. These people become the stereotypical "office drones" I mentioned earlier, falling away from reflecting their creator through creating in turn. Conversely, other's retain this ability, actively challenging the systems that everyone lives by, effectively staving off stagnation, and displaying more vibrance and individuality as well. Suffice to say, this puts such a supreme being into a perspective that differs somewhat from the traditional Christian viewpoint. For instance, in an imagined world (mine, at least), it is impossible for any truely sentient behavior to spring forth without it being at least a subconcious extention, or reflection rather, of my own sentience. There are a variety of distinct and separate personalities within this world, each representing a different aspect of their creator, with the remainder of the population "fading into the background", acting as a group rather than as individuals, and often with less vibrance. Taking this a level up, it becomes an analogy for the creative thinker versus the stereotypical "office drone", and also suggests that all sentient life, in some way, is a reflection, or extension, of its creator. Perhaps people think and act as a group, displaying a vague sort of sentience, but nothing individualistic, unless they are identified and recognized by their creator as individuals, and thus begin to reflect specific aspects of him or her. Furthermore, if you add free will to this mix, the creator becomes not many of one, but one with jurisdiction over many, thus taking away the power that this argument just gave him/her.

    Do you understand what I'm saying? We are all, in an admittedly convoluted sense, God, each of us acting independantly, yet at the same time an extention of one impossibly large sentience. Or perhaps, if one were to take the argument further, there is no impossibly large sentience, and "God" is simply a descriptive term for the sum total of every sentient lifeform in the multi-verse. "God" as an all-encompassing force, not as an all-encompassing entity. "God" as the very definition of creative thought, imagination, and life.

    On the other hand, what if "God" is sentient? If so, why did he/she create the world in the first place? People create new worlds when their bored with the one's they already have, Imagination 101, so could it be said that he/she is bored with whatever world he/she inhabits, if any? If there is an "overworld", one in which this person lives, are there others there like him/her? And if that world exists, who created it? How many layers are there, worlds within worlds, and how far can you travel through them before reaching the end, assuming there even is one?
    I pretty much agree with everything you're saying and hi its nice to meet you.
    I guess I'm just gonna put my 2cents in but I'm not gonna bother to read all the other posts right now cuz I'm tired
    Imagine God as all 3 of these things, First person, Second person and Third person.
    1st person = I am God
    2nd person = He/She is God
    3rd peson = We are God
    God is not only one of these things God is all of them at once.
    But if I exist as God and We exist as God, then the question is where does He/She the seperate sentient being God exist? That is a pretty awesome question since thinking of it that way suggests that the thought of a sentient entity called God could be rational. Well if God were sentient I don;t think his consciousness would be anything like ours. It would be much more vast and complex... And I don't think God would need a body to be sentient. I just don't think that would be necessary.


    You should read some of Timothy Leary's writings. Also, Carl Jung. Jung is my homeboy. Have you heard of the collective unconscious? You should look that up, its awesome. :]

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by promethathustra View Post
    The Word became flesh...as it does in each generation!
    Are you arguing in favor of the Philosophia Perennis?

  9. #49
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    Perhaps to a certain respect but not wholy. There is the Word of all ages involved. A Natural phenomenon! Aquired through study and meditaion!
    "This fearless one always is the same in essence,however.He is Holy heresy born stout lacking the ability to cower or break.The Universe is transparent to him." Me

  10. #50
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    Yup sounds like you are.

    Christian perennialists conclude that it is a mistake to confuse the uniqueness of the only-begotten and eternal Son of God with the alleged singularity of his historical manifestation in first-century Palestine. Without denying that there is only one Son of God, or that he alone is the author of salvation, or that Jesus Christ is that Son, they contend that there are no Biblical or dogmatic grounds for supposing that this one Son has limited his saving work to his incarnate presence as Jesus. On the contrary, as St Athanasius and other early fathers insisted, though the Word “became flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1:14), he was not confined by his body even during his earthly ministry...

    ...Though truly incarnate as Jesus Christ in Christianity, he is salvifically operative in and through non-Christian religions as well. In some he is present in an equally personal way, as in Krishna and the other Hindu avatars, in whom he was also ‘made man’ (Nicene Creed), while in others he appears in an impersonal way, as in the Qur’an of Islam, where he made himself book.
    "Perennial Philosophy and Christianity"

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