User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 107

  1. #21
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    No, I mean exactly what I said. As far as who it applies to... you as well as essentially every other human to ever exist is tainted by it.
    That makes me feel a bit better...though I still disagree with the postulation that these are satan-inspired thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    As for the rest of what is being discussed, it seems like a vast overcomplexification.
    *small smile*

    That's me: "overcomplexifying" simple things, though in my defense, nothing is ever truly simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    There is reality... physical, finite reality. Your imagination exists within reality, not the other way around. You can imagine whatever you want, but it will always remain this simple.
    I say simply that you are wrong. Very, very, very wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    If you don't believe me I can refer you to a number of convincing albeit painful experiments.
    *does the Morpheus "come hither" hand-signal*

    Bring it.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  2. #22
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, you can use inductive reasoning to leap to that as a possibility. Inductive reasoning is analogical reasoning; it doesn't prove that your concept is correct, it just shows it to be possible/plausible.

    As a writer, I've already had the same thought myself; I am capable of creating an entire world with characters that feel very real and almost seem to write themselves, but they spawn out of me as a reflection of who I am.

    So I have thought about how that suggests the possibility of a being above me from whom all the things that seem to be the "real world" could spawn in turn. Just as the writer has omnisicent and omnipotent control over the contents of the story and the characters who appear, "God" could potentially do the same thing except that instead of writing us down in a book, we are projected into 3D space and 4D reality... meaning "God" would be higher up in the dimensional level. But just as my most "alive" characters seem to have a life of their own, so would we...we might be generated as a reflection of the author but we still also act under our own volition within these dimensions.
    Thank you. Just...thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I agree with the concept, but I do not like you referring to people as "drones" due to the negative connotation. Yes, in a practical sense, "drones" exist in a hive and might all seem to just be about accomplishing a certain practical task without needing to imagine or consider in a "higher plane"... but the entire hive would collapse without the drones' existence and efforts. EVERYONE serves a purpose that is valued and necessary. You might not have meant to suggest a negative connotation, but unfortunately in American culture, the negative connotation is nowadays the standard definition of drone.
    I understand full well the importance of such people, and I meant no offense. I didn't mean "drones" in the sense that a lot of people are them, but in the sense that everyone has a little "drone" in them. Everyone is individual, yet also interconnected, and when you get right down to it (and take the body away), where one person ends and another begins becomes a very vague line. What are we, but a governing force over a collection of thoughts, memories, and ideas, many of which remain relatively similar, regardless of who they belong to. You see that chair, and I see that chair; it's the same sensation. It's what we as individuals do with that sensation that counts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yeah, you gotta watch this. You distastefully come across as an elitist and rather inexperienced in life. At this stage of my existence, after getting to know lots of types of people, I don't really care if someone is a janitor, a secretary, a DOT worker, a scientist, a theologian, or a dog catcher: We ALL have worlds living within us, bright unique specifics worlds full of hopes and dreams, an entire mysterious array of worlds, and your attitude comes off as dismissive and short-sighted. Dreamers are valuable... but so is everyone else.
    As much as I appreciate you protecting the masses, that is not at all what I said, or meant to say. I'm not insulting people, or looking down on them, or dismissing them as inferior, or anything even remotely like that; I am simply describing how things work, from a purely objective standpoint, in an imagined reality by using my own as reference. I apologize again for giving that impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Free will is an assumption.
    No one is completely free.
    You are currently caught in webs of thinking just from the culture, time period, physical body, family, ethnic background, and economic group you have been raised in, among other things.
    You might feel like you have the power of choice, but all the choices that you have have already been handed to you and you're not aware of choices outside of them.
    An argument I've heard before, and one I don't believe, though I can respect that you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    No, I missed your large leap from the prior paragraph to this one.
    Yeah, I kinda put that in for dramatic effect...

    *sheepish grin*

    Though now that I look back on it, there isn't really a leap to make, because the connections (between the paragraphs) necessary for such a leap aren't there. I tried to explain it in the next part of the second paragraph.

    On the other hand, this rather ties in to the previous bit. We, as members of this mess of creation called the world, are all a part of God's mind. However, my point is, if we're all sentient, are we all, in some way, "God", in the same sense that the more sentient characters in my paracosm (imagined world; I just learned that word) are me, recognized and named as aspects of myself?

    It is difficult to explain; like the Holy Trinity, actually, but if this is true, then, and I mean this in the humblest possible sense, we decide what God thinks, and God decides what we think, and those distinctions are too close together to remain separate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Is there a discernible rational answer to that? Or is it just the stuff of speculation?
    How should I know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It sounds more the realm of philosophy, religion, and creativity.
    Which is why I chose Philosophy and Spirituality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, it somehow became a discussion of a particular sect of Christian doctrine.
    Yes, I suppose it did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yeah, that was the standard Christian boilerplate there.
    (How's it feel to be the spawn of Satan?)
    Tiring. The way I see it, Jesus himself was a radical at the time, full to the brim with new ideas that contradicted what many people thought. I ask myself sometimes whether, if he came back now, anyone would recognize him.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  3. #23
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by promethathustra View Post
    [
    Do you understand what I'm saying? We are all, in an admittedly convoluted sense, God, each of us acting independantly, yet at the same time an extention of one impossibly large sentience. Or perhaps, if one were to take the argument further, there is no impossibly large sentience, and "God" is simply a descriptive term for the sum total of every sentient lifeform in the multi-verse. "God" as an all-encompassing force, not as an all-encompassing entity. "God" as the very definition of creative thought, imagination, and life.

    This is the concept of Emergence. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. As an ant hill can funtion as one entity, as the Earth can be seen as one biosphere and described as a single living entity...so can the universe (or god.) How much of it can you understand? If you can imagine that light bends around stars but cannot prove it...????
    Ah, Emergence. Quite true.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  4. #24

    Default

    I remember reading in Philip K Dick's Our Friend's On Frolix 8 that they discovered the corpse of "God" floating out in space when they first began space exploration, the amazing thing is that isnt even the theme of the book, its just an aside along the way, its really about a huge invulnerable pink gelatinous blob which is coming with its friends to earth, where it will, depending on how you look at things either save mankind or slowly digest them all.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    Just a joke. I dunno... jump off the roof and imagine you can fly or something like that.
    The Wright Brothers did that already, actually. It may have taken longer then simply willing something into existence, but the basic principle remains the same: what started as an idea was brought into being through the power of sentient ingenuity. This is not our reality, which is why such "willing" is generally impossible, but we can still change it, and affect it in accordance with our own imaginations; we just have to do it on God's terms.

    On the other hand, that may have been exactly what you just said. Still, you try explaining the age old paradox of one person seeing the forest, and another seeing the trees. "Reality" is subjective.

    ...and you do fly. Down.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  6. #26
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I posted in one of Victor's threads about God as I understand it...

    I think God, or spirituality or whatever, dwells in the place of mystery within each of us, and that is what connects us. I need to think about this some more, because I don't think I'm making any sense.
    You make sense...I think.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  7. #27
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    You are the god of your own world (your particularly introverted Fi driven mental world), as is everyone, though your world is not autonomous.
    Isn't it? I don't disagree (entirely, at least), but on what do you base this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    To succeed in the act of creation in life/reality is to expand your world, impress your will upon others, and give your god true expression.
    To "leave a record behind", I assume? "If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around, does it make a sound"? As I said (or implied, at least) before, whose to say that such a world didn't already exist, or will continue to exist even if no one is alive to remember it.

    Which brings up a further point: what, exactly, happens to a world if its creator forgets it? Who cares for it? What would happen if God "forgot" this one? Why? Why? Why?

    I don't imply any point beyond this; it's simply food for thought.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    On the other hand, that may have been exactly what you just said. Still, you try explaining the age old paradox of one person seeing the forest, and another seeing the trees. "Reality" is subjective.

    ...and you do fly. Down.
    My point was that there is a reason for everything and it has nothing to do with what we think about it. I am not trying to say we shouldn't push the limits and dream big, just that approaching the whole thing without acknowledging that we all live in the same concrete reality with finite limitations actually hurts the creative process because you're wasting time on stuff that will never come to fruition. It is our minds which must conform to the truth and not the truth to our mind. The Wright brothers did eventually fly because they engineered a method to which utilized the physics of flight, not because they wanted to fly even though it had to have started with that.

    The forest/tree thing isn't a paradox. If anything, two people seeing the same thing in two different ways is another reminder that human thought is a highly subjective and flawed, and cannot be trusted unless it accurately reflects reality. There mere implication that there is more than 1 truth about reality, or that two conflicting statements about reality can both be true tells us how little we know about what is true and what isn't. And it all started with the idea that we could create truth instead of continuing to be subject to it... that we could determine for ourself what is real as if we were a god. as it stands, we aren't and it will always remain that way.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    My point was that there is a reason for everything and it has nothing to do with what we think about it. I am not trying to say we shouldn't push the limits and dream big, just that approaching the whole thing without acknowledging that we all live in the same concrete reality with finite limitations actually hurts the creative process because you're wasting time on stuff that will never come to fruition. It is our minds which must conform to the truth and not the truth to our mind. The Wright brothers did eventually fly because they engineered a method to which utilized the physics of flight, not because they wanted to fly even though it had to have started with that.
    True enough. What I said, actually, which is funny since I said as much what you said as you just said what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    The forest/tree thing isn't a paradox. If anything, two people seeing the same thing in two different ways is another reminder that human thought is a highly subjective and flawed...
    Subjective yes, flawed...maybe. They may be different, but they're both true; it depends on your point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    ...and cannot be trusted unless it accurately reflects reality.
    Yes, but what is reality? If our collective viewpoint's are subjective by design, how can anyone claim "reality" exists at all, much less if it's inaccurately reflected?

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    There mere implication that there is more than 1 truth about reality, or that two conflicting statements about reality can both be true tells us how little we know about what is true and what isn't.
    We are in agreement here.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    And it all started with the idea that we could create truth instead of continuing to be subject to it... that we could determine for ourself what is real as if we were a god. as it stands, we aren't and it will always remain that way.
    Will it? We're dealing with "infinity-class" variables, remember; I'm hesitant to put a limit on anything. The universal rule, I believe, is that every rule has an exception (including this one, of course).

    As I said before, is the creator of our particular universe really the supreme creator? Or is he/she but one entity within a larger, higher reality created by an even more prestigious creator. And, if so, how far do those layers go? (Oddly enough, I'd be perfectly satisfied if I never found the end; the world is infinite, and there's no call to know it all.)

    L'haari met, what are we even arguing about? Should we agree to disagree, or would you like to continue?
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  10. #30
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INKP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I remember reading in Philip K Dick's Our Friend's On Frolix 8 that they discovered the corpse of "God" floating out in space when they first began space exploration, the amazing thing is that isnt even the theme of the book, its just an aside along the way, its really about a huge invulnerable pink gelatinous blob which is coming with its friends to earth, where it will, depending on how you look at things either save mankind or slowly digest them all.
    That's an odd thing to put in a book...
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

Similar Threads

  1. What Is Art? Who or What Determines This?
    By Dreamer in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-08-2017, 02:10 PM
  2. Who or what determines what is good or bad taste?
    By Comeback Girl in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-28-2014, 03:52 PM
  3. What is this god of which you speak?
    By juggernaut in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 06-09-2009, 07:41 PM
  4. [INTP] What is this fun you speak of?
    By Cerpin_Taxt in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 06-10-2008, 12:46 PM
  5. What is this indicative of?
    By Ezra in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-05-2008, 11:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO