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  1. #91
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I'm afraid I simply cannot compete with "there is no truth". I must bow out it in quiet obeisance to the brilliance of such a claim; I admit, you have bested me already.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #92
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Imagining is more like re-organizing nowadays. I'm inclined to say that just because we can't find the truth doesn't mean there isn't one, we just haven't realized all of the possibilities yet.

  3. #93
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    "I think, therefore I am"

    ask yourself, "I am... true or false?"

    Proof that absolute truth exists... and since absolute truth exists, there must also be false truth... and since there is absolute truth and false truth, anything will be one or the other. Therefore, "it is a matter of perspective, nothing is black and white" is also a false truth.

    you might say, "but, we can't know the truth", and I'd say "I agree, I don't think you know the truth either."

  4. #94
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Imagining is more like re-organizing nowadays. I'm inclined to say that just because we can't find the truth doesn't mean there isn't one, we just haven't realized all of the possibilities yet.
    We'll see, I suppose.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  5. #95
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    What?
    It means "I think you're wrong."

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    Anyway, some would say that it was obvious that I was being sarcastic, and only an insufferable dolt would fail to apprehend this.
    And some would also say jumping to conclusions is reckless, and that I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    Of course, "some" lack the NF insight which you possess, and so are manifestly unreliable in their judgement.
    Don't do that; I never said we're superior, I just said we're not inferior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    I'm afraid I simply cannot compete with "there is no truth". I must bow out it in quiet obeisance to the brilliance of such a claim; I admit, you have bested me already.
    If sarcastic remarks are all you can throw at me, there is no point in continuing this conversation.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  6. #96
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    "I think, therefore I am"

    ask yourself, "I am... true or false?"
    Am I? With all the variables we've been discussing, how can I be sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    Proof that absolute truth exists... and since absolute truth exists, there must also be false truth... and since there is absolute truth and false truth, anything will be one or the other. Therefore, "it is a matter of perspective, nothing is black and white" is also a false truth.
    ...unless everything's not one or the other; that's called a "circular argument", I believe. You assume one thing is true, and use that to prove another thing that, if true, would prove it (the first thing) true.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    you might say, "but, we can't know the truth", and I'd say "I agree, I don't think you know the truth either."
    Sadly no, but I try.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    Am I? With all the variables we've been discussing, how can I be sure?

    ...unless everything's not one or the other; that's called a "circular argument", I believe. You assume one thing is true, and use that to prove another thing that, if true, would prove it (the first thing) true.
    If you're not sure whether you exist or not, why (or how, even) are you asking these question in the first place?

    Truth exists as an absolute state per that proof, so everything else is untrue or false truth. Two categories, two adjectives to describe something--true or false. Whether it can be proven one way or another is irrelevant except for convincing someone of it.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Iriohm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    If you're not sure whether you exist, why are you asking this question in the first place?
    Because you asked me to. Just now.

    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    Truth exists as an absolute state per that proof, so everything else is untrue or false truth. Two categories, two adjectives to describe something--true or false. Whether it can be proven one way or another is irrelevant except for convincing someone of it.
    So...it can't be proven, yet it is; or did you mean whether or not something specific can be proven true? I continue to put forth that nothing is black and white; the world is much bigger than that.
    "Quiiri ath metahn i'ashei?"
    Chronically Gephyrophobic

  9. #99
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    If sarcastic remarks are all you can throw at me, there is no point in continuing this conversation.
    I've already bowed out. As I said, I just cannot compete with you.

  10. #100
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriohm Bladewalker View Post
    Because you asked me to. Just now.



    So...it can't be proven, yet it is; or did you mean whether or not something specific can be proven true? I continue to put forth that nothing is black and white; the world is much bigger than that.
    I can contest that I can find several laws that are black and white (i.e. gravity). Existence is rather pointless to argue over seeing as the same arguments are continuously brought up until circularly you end up where you began. It doesn't matter whether you do, or not... you just are. If you DID figure out that you didn't exist in what way would that help you?

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