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  1. #51
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    Smile Incomplete

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Of course our current models are flawed.
    It's not that Pure Mathematics is flawed, for we have known beyond doubt since 1931 that Pure Mathematics is incomplete. It is inherently incomplete and forever incomplete.

    It is analogous to knowing that an all powerful, all knowing and all good God is incomplete.

  2. #52
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    Has anyone considered that somewhere, beyond basic 'rithmetic, that maybe we got something wrong?
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Has anyone considered that somewhere, beyond basic 'rithmetic, that maybe we got something wrong?
    Basic 'rithmetic is both Applied Mathematics and Pure Mathematics, for Bertrand Russell spent great swarths of his, "Principia Mathematica", in three volumes (1910-1913), to proving 1+1=2, in order to show that Pure Mathematics was complete.

    But all to no avail, for in 1931 Kurt Gödel proved with his two incompleteness theorems that Pure Mathematics was incomplete.

    Its not that Pure Mathematics is flawed or that there are flawed models, no, its that Pure Mathematics at its highest level is inherently and forever incomplete.

    We now know there are some things we don't know.

    But worse, we now know there are some things we can't know.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We now know there are some things we don't know.

    But worse, we now know there are some things we can't know.
    I still don't understand what is so bad about it all, though...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  5. #55
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    It appears that Victor is preaching again. Today it's a variation on his usual theme, Existentialism.

    And you're in good form today, Victor. Well done.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I still don't understand what is so bad about it all, though...
    Well, some think the death of God in 1856 is bad, and no doubt those same people would think the death of Pure Mathematics in 1931 is also bad.

    Unfortunately most did not notice that God or Pure Mathematics were ill. And so far they have not been apprised of their respective deaths.

    We have spent millennia worshipping God and to find He is dead without even knowing He was ill, is a bit of a shock.

    And for millennia we have practised Pure Mathematics mainly to worship the astrological Gods. And to find that Pure Mathematics has died behind our backs, and died in 1931 when no one was looking, is a bit hard to take.

  7. #57
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    Hm. I follow you somewhat but I disagree with your conclusions.

    I don't think God is dead. I think God is a mystery. God IS mystery, in a way. As such we can never fully comprehend him/her/it/them/us. God. That part of ourselves, the universe which is beautiful, terrifying, filled with love and meaning, but not fully understood. Just because something is not fully comprehensible doesn't mean it is dead. In fact, the opposite. Our conceptions and understandings of things are constantly evolving, collectively and individually. If growth, transformation, is not the essence of life, I do not know what is.

    Mathematics is a language. It is an attempt to describe the mystery that is the universe. All languages have their limitations. The language is not dead if it continues to convey meaning and to unite people with those ideas, that meaning... if it continues to have relevance.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #58
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    Dangerous Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Hm. I follow you somewhat but I disagree with your conclusions.

    I don't think God is dead. I think God is a mystery. God IS mystery, in a way. As such we can never fully comprehend him/her/it/them/us. God. That part of ourselves, the universe which is beautiful, terrifying, filled with love and meaning, but not fully understood. Just because something is not fully comprehensible doesn't mean it is dead. In fact, the opposite. Our conceptions and understandings of things are constantly evolving, collectively and individually. If growth, transformation, is not the essence of life, I do not know what is.

    Mathematics is a language. It is an attempt to describe the mystery that is the universe. All languages have their limitations. The language is not dead if it continues to convey meaning and to unite people with those ideas, that meaning... if it continues to have relevance.
    I hesitate to put dangerous ideas into young hands, for who knows what they might do. But I feel my hand is being forced and reluctantly I hand my dangerous idea over to you.

    Just click on -

    YouTube - BBC-Dangerous Knowledge (Part 1-10)

  9. #59
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    I will have to watch it when I'm not at work. Is it terribly long? Does make many points that you haven't already said in your posts?

    Out of curiosity, how old do you think my hands are?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  10. #60
    Oberon
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    I knew a fellow once... his name was Willard... who was working on a novel. In his novel, he wrote a character who made disturbing scientific discoveries... discoveries that led inevitably to the conclusion that there could be no such thing as an Author.

    Willard's funeral was last spring, and since then the characters in the novel have been stuck in an existential wasteland, victims of inevitable ennui.

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