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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The latest evidence is found in, "The Double Helix", by Watson and Crick.

    Surely you have heard of the sequencing of the genome and how it shows forever, "The Origin of Species", is correct.

    God is no longer necessary except on the USA dollar which says, "In God We Trust", and of course to justify Islamic Jihad.

    God has been relegated to the dollar and jihad.
    I agree his theory is correct but it still does not prove the non-existence of god. It disproves the fundamentalists theory who believe God created humans first Adam and Eve.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I agree his theory is correct but it still does not prove the non-existence of god.
    You're right, it doesn't prove the non-existence of God. It just makes God unnecessary.

    Look, I am writing to you from the Hancock Library, the mathematics and physics library of the Australian National University. And this library contains millions of equations. But in not one of all these millions of equations is God mentioned even once.

    God is entirely unnecessary. God is now an optional extra. God is little more than a fashion accessory for the dollar and Islamic Jihad.

    Occam's Razor cuts God out of the picture.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    You're right, it doesn't prove the non-existence of God. It just makes God unnecessary.

    Look, I am writing to you from the Hancock Library, the mathematics and physics library of the Australian National University. And this library contains millions of equations. But in not one of all these millions of equations is God mentioned even once.

    God is entirely unnecessary. God is now an optional extra. God is little more than a fashion accessory for the dollar and Islamic Jihad.

    Occam's Razor cuts God out of the picture.
    Wait so your point is math was suppose to be used to find the existence of god?, how do math and god correlate? I never saw the two together. How can you prove the existence of God through calculations of numbers, to think so is a dead end.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Wait so your point is math was suppose to be used to find the existence of god?, how do math and god correlate? I never saw the two together. How can you prove the existence of God through calculations of numbers, to think so is a dead end.
    Well, so many mathematicians have sought to find God through mathematics. Hilbert is a good example. And they have been very reluctant, even today, to give up the search. Instead they have tried to destroy their mathematical colleagues, Georg Cantor, Ludwig Boltzmann, Kurt Gödel and Alan Turing, with ad hominem attacks, academic marginalization, and refusal to publish.

    But Kurt Gödel's two incompleteness theorems are crystal clear and undeniable. And undeniably unsettling. Just as the death of God is unsettling, almost as unsettling as the death of mathematics.

    This discovery is so unsettling the great mathematicians who made it went mad or were driven mad by their colleagues and committed suicide.

    So ask yourself - why do you know more about Lindsay Lohan than Georg Cantor, Ludwig Boltzmann, Kurt Gödel or Alan Turing?

  5. #35
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    Victor, would you elaborate more on Gödel's incompleteness theorems a little more? you seem very well versed on the subject. I think while i might understand the gist of what his work concludes, I don't feel that I fully comprehend what it means..but I'm very interested.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    Victor, would you elaborate more on Gödel's incompleteness theorems a little more? you seem very well versed on the subject. I think while i might understand the gist of what his work concludes, I don't feel that I fully comprehend what it means..but I'm very interested.
    I just fried my brain on the command: "prove that a quantum exists."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes.

    Preposterous, you say. Well, even Kurt Gödel thought is was preposterous, and tried to prove it wrong but he failed and starved himself to death.

    I hope, though, I haven't spoiled your appetite.
    No, I see where you're getting at. Carry on!
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes.

    Preposterous, you say. Well, even Kurt Gödel thought is was preposterous, and tried to prove it wrong but he failed and starved himself to death.

    I hope, though, I haven't spoiled your appetite.
    As M. Arouet said, il fait cultiver notre jardin.

  9. #39
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    summary from wikipedia:

    The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an "effective procedure" (essentially, a computer program) is capable of proving all facts about the natural numbers. For any such system, there will always be statements about the natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system. The second incompleteness theorem shows that if such a system is also capable of proving certain basic facts about the natural numbers, then one particular arithmetic truth the system cannot prove is the consistency of the system itself.

    i think i can see the big picture, which (from what i can gather) is that a paradox exists here simply because mathematics is a concept created by man, and thus flawed like every other idea we come up with which, i think, totally makes sense. what i find myself uncertain of is the details of the italicized bits...
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Mathematics begins with an injunction - make a distinction.

    And ends with being unable to decide whether a problem is solvable or not.

    It's hard to believe I know, but mathematics has a beginning and an end.

    I have been touting mathematics as the language of God, but I was wrong.

    God, as we all know, is dead but some of us hoped we could hear his last whispers in mathematics. But no, mathematics itself teaches us that mathematics cannot describe the world.

    So we are left in the Universe, bereft children without God or logic. All we have left is ourselves.

    But alas the lust for Certainty remains in fundamentalism. Although we now know with mathematical certainty that the foundations are air.

    And as you note, this is a paradox that has driven four of our greatest mathematicians to madness and suicide, Georg Cantor, Ludwig Boltzmann, Kurt Gödel and Alan Turing.
    Turing was harassed by the police. He did not kill himself because of mathematics.
    A blind alley is not en end.

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