A Quick Question

[Iriohm]

What do you imagine would happen if murder was legalized? Have we advanced to the point where such serious infractions are hard-coded into our systems as facts and behaviors so common that it would be redundant to put to words that they're morally objectionable? How many people are held back only by the law?

 

[Phantonym]

What do you imagine would happen if murder was legalized? Have we advanced to the point where such serious infractions are hard-coded into our systems as facts and behaviors so common that it would be redundant to put to words that they're morally objectionable?

Some have, some haven't. Since I happen to be idealistically inclined on most occasions, I would like to believe that most people would be able to "restrain" themselves if murder was legalized. Having respect for life no matter what.

However, you can never protect yourself from somebody who is either so raged to think clearly or dead set to kill you, be it legalized or not.

How many people are held back only by the law?

Possibly too many, and at the same time, probably not enough.

 

[Totenkindly]

Laws serve the point of protecting those with self-control/discipline from those without. They also protect the powerless from the powerful... and in some cases even protect the minority against the majority.

Otherwise even a few rogue citizens could do a lot of damage... although I bet society would self-regulate ... all the "safe citizens" would congregate and remove the destructive influences, by killing/imprisoning them. Same result, except the bad seeds got to do some damage before being removed. It might not seem like a big deal until it's your son or daughter that gets to be one of the sacrificial lambs while the violent run free. Codified law expediates the process.

 

[Pixelholic]

What do you imagine would happen if murder was legalized? Have we advanced to the point where such serious infractions are hard-coded into our systems as facts and behaviors so common that it would be redundant to put to words that they're morally objectionable? How many people are held back only by the law?

You'd have an uptick in murders as you'd have sociopaths and others who deviate for societal norms killing people and the people who would feel it necessary to take the law into their own hands.

A majority would carry on as normal though, because the golden rule is sort of ingrained into our social behavior.

 

[Iriohm]

However, you can never protect yourself from somebody who is either so raged to think clearly or dead set to kill you, be it legalized or not.

Exactly. If someone is driven to murder, the fact that it's illegal probably isn't on their mind.

 

[Coriolis]

Exactly. If someone is driven to murder, the fact that it's illegal probably isn't on their mind.

Perhaps. But designating it as a crime makes it eligible for societal (i.e. government) sanction, such that it is not left to the victim's friends and family to arrange punishment, retribution, or removal of the murderer from society so he/she cannot kill again.

 

[Phantonym]

Perhaps. But designating it as a crime makes it eligible for societal (i.e. government) sanction, such that it is not left to the victim's friends and family to arrange punishment, retribution, or removal of the murderer from society so he/she cannot kill again.

Well, when it comes to arranging punishment, nobody really wants to get their hands dirty, do they? The government sanction makes it a "it's none of my business, the government will take care of that" thing but at the same time you alienate yourself from responsibility.

Why shouldn't you take responsibility? Not only for your own actions, but for the wellbeing for the whole community. Some do, but aren't most people merely satisfied if they and their families are relatively "happy", who really cares about others? It's the community spirit, so to speak, close ties that are lacking. Exactly the fact that there is this elected "higher power of authority" to do the dirty work when lines have been crossed. Maybe if there was a way to prevent crossing that line altogether...*reality check*...too many variables in the system for it to work properly, the "human" factor tends to mess things up, in a negative way.

The laws are probably hindering the "advancement" mentioned in the OP, making things too "safe". Or something.

 

[Iriohm]

Well, when it comes to arranging punishment, nobody really wants to get their hands dirty, do they? The government sanction makes it a "it's none of my business, the government will take care of that" thing but at the same time you alienate yourself from responsibility.

Why shouldn't you take responsibility? Not only for your own actions, but for the wellbeing for the whole community. Some do, but aren't most people merely satisfied if they and their families are relatively "happy", who really cares about others? It's the community spirit, so to speak, close ties that are lacking. Exactly the fact that there is this elected "higher power of authority" to do the dirty work when lines have been crossed. Maybe if there was a way to prevent crossing that line altogether...*reality check*...too many variables in the system for it to work properly, the "human" factor tends to mess things up, in a negative way.

The laws are probably hindering the "advancement" mentioned in the OP, making things too "safe". Or something.

Read this.

 

[Iriohm]

Perhaps. But designating it as a crime makes it eligible for societal (i.e. government) sanction, such that it is not left to the victim's friends and family to arrange punishment, retribution, or removal of the murderer from society so he/she cannot kill again.

*sighs*

There is that. Still, imagine a world in which it was redundant to make murder illegal because it simply didn't happen. We're probably a long way from that, but it's a nice thought anyways.

 

[Little_Sticks]

What do you imagine would happen if murder was legalized? Have we advanced to the point where such serious infractions are hard-coded into our systems as facts and behaviors so common that it would be redundant to put to words that they're morally objectionable? How many people are held back only by the law?

Probably not that many. Despite what people think it really isn't that hard to devise a plan and kill someone without anyone figuring out you're linked to it. It only becomes a problem if you have something to gain from it that police can determine and see you as a possible suspect. Of course, not that I like the idea of murder or have ever done it, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but it's a crazy world and some people are real good at making others so miserable no one would really mind if they were gone. Kind of like in Dexter.

Murder will never go away and it's not always a result of a person trying to be 'destructive to society', sometimes it is deemed the most necessary solution. One example is in a survival setting where it is important that everyone do their part to help and not argue or fight. If someone is creating too much trouble, one of the leaders might want to make it a point that doing that will kill them all and kill the one who is just making everything worse. Actually that tends to be the plot of those survival dramas.

 

[Iriohm]

Probably not that many. Despite what people think it really isn't that hard to devise a plan and kill someone without anyone figuring out you're linked to it. It only becomes a problem if you have something to gain from it that police can determine and see you as a possible suspect. Of course, not that I like the idea of murder or have ever done it, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but it's a crazy world and some people are real good at making others so miserable no one would really mind if they were gone. Kind of like in Dexter.

Murder will never go away and it's not always a result of a person trying to be 'destructive to society', sometimes it is deemed the most necessary solution. One example is in a survival setting where it is important that everyone do their part to help and not argue or fight. If someone is creating too much trouble, one of the leaders might want to make it a point that doing that will kill them all and kill the one who is just making everything worse. Actually that tends to be the plot of those survival dramas.

Assassin's Creed...and that brings up another point. Those plot-lines that involve apocalyptic situations via intentional genocide at the hands of a superior species, usually alien, under the excuse that humanity is ruining the planet. There's always something wrong with the world at large, but there are good people here; it's unfair to pass judgment on everyone.

Also, what if hatred could kill?

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

But murder is legalised - you have only to look at war zones the west is involved in, and countries where capital punishment is still practised!! The governments justify it all as the will of the people. The fact that it is either War or Punishment can never erase the fact that a human life is intentionally taken!

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

Also, what if hatred could kill?

Hatred is an emotion that erodes the soul of the hater and does more damage there than to the target of hatred. It is all consuming and frequently takes over and affects the lives of so many more than the target.

 

[Iriohm]

In response to both

But murder is legalised - you have only to look at war zones the west is involved in, and countries where capital punishment is still practised!! The governments justify it all as the will of the people. The fact that it is either War or Punishment can never erase the fact that a human life is intentionally taken!

It would be more accurate, in my most humble opinion, to say that killing is legalized. I'm talking more along the lines of killing someone in cold blood for immoral gain, revenge, etc...

Hatred is an emotion that erodes the soul of the hater and does more damage there than to the target of hatred. It is all consuming and frequently takes over and affects the lives of so many more than the target.

That's true, but what if hating someone could kill them (the hated). Granted, they probably don't see it in the same context I do, but I've seen people toss around I-hate-yous with surprisingly little regard for what their actually saying. "Would people take hatred more seriously if it could kill," is my point.

 

[5231311252]

What do you imagine would happen if murder was legalized?

I think murder rates would go up.

Have we advanced to the point where such serious infractions are hard-coded into our systems as facts and behaviors so common that it would be redundant to put to words that they're morally objectionable?

Say every time your child takes a cookie from the cookie jar, you hit them with a stick. They eventually learn not to take a cookie from the cookie jar. After a while of not taking a cookie from the cookie jar, they decide to test the waters and instead of hitting them, you do nothing at all. Again they take a cookie and again you do nothing. Eventually they will take as many cookies as they please, because they know you'll do nothing and they might even forget you ever hit them for taking a cookie from the cookie jar. Or maybe just knowing they can have a cookie anytime they want will be enough. This is a bit how I think it would go. Sure murder is a stone's throw from taking cookies from a cookie jar, but the point is that people will eventually be desensitized. Of course, religion and morality have much more to do with murder than laws. If someone wants you dead, a paragraph in bold letters and a balding man in a barber's cape isn't going to stop them.

How many people are held back only by the law?

Not too many, but I think religion definitely plays a larger part than the law.

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

Define murder. Because many will have different definitions. Some think capital punishment is murder, though it is not.

It would be a scary world to live in if actual, outright, murder were legal. I can just imagine trying to drive home in rush hour - it would be impossible for the strewn vehicles all over the road.

 

[Iriohm]

Define murder. Because many will have different definitions. Some think capital punishment is murder, though it is not.

It would be a scary world to live in if actual, outright, murder were legal. I can just imagine trying to drive home in rush hour - it would be impossible for the strewn vehicles all over the road.

Murder: Killing in cold blood for purely personal gain.

 

[Lark]

I dont think its the law that prevents murder at the moment, there could be more killing if there wasnt the legal sanction and punishment but then there could be less because people fear retaliation more than they do imprisonment.

I'd say that eventually a law prohibiting it and authority would arise eventually.

 

[Katsuni]

Honestly I think alot of people would just try to justify it. Someone yeu don't like? Well murder is now a permanent option! Sure yeu maybe wanted to hurt them before, but yeu would've gotten in trouble for it, despite that they probably deserved it. Now, without restrictions, there's no reason NOT to do so!

People tend to hate each other, often with little to no reason. They hate so strongly they're often willing to kill even when it IS illegal. Often, the fact that it's illegal is the only thing holding people back and making them grit their teeth, because they know they'd get in as much trouble for it; remove that and they lack that necessary hook to keep them from going too far.

Yeu want to see a good example of whot happens when the law disappears? Check out a major natural disaster. Looting, vandalism, murders, without a penalty, people tend to figure it doesn't matter.

They'll steal pens from work, because they justify it in their mind. And they will kill other people, because they justify it in their mind. The severity of the infraction honestly doesn't matter; the only difference is the severity of the punishment, which prevents some things more than others.

There's alot of people who WON'T do that as well, but there's far too many who can, and would, work themselves into some insane delusional self justified killing spree, simply because they think they're right and that the group they hate just has to die. Be it god's plan, racism, or whotever excuse they go for, they will do so.

It's best we don't remove the one thing that is stopping them from saying "God's will changed the law so that we could smite the sinners". We have enough nutjobs with enough munitions to level a small country as it is >.>

 

[Feops]

Laws serve the point of protecting those with self-control/discipline from those without.

Summarizes my opinion nicely. Many laws define things that the majority of people would never do anyway, or could handle with responsibility, but need to exist as to prevent abuse from the minority who either cannot exercise proper self-control or would willingly abuse it.

Speaking to murder specifically, society requires security and stability to function properly. That includes reasonable confidence that one can function without being randomly assaulted. Murders will still happen of course, but laws restrict these incidents to extreme situations.