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  1. #11
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Could it be said that the great spiritual leaders are satisfied? Or are they the exception to the topic? If we allow these exceptions, by process of elimination, can we find at least one person who is satisfied?

    To me, this notion of satisfaction is a primal, instinctual one. And one that we can override.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. " - Viktor E. Frankl

    I think that those who embrace this idea see life differently. At the core, there is a fundamental shift between the view of attainment to the view of service. I think that the pivotal question is: if death comes today, would you freak out or be welcoming.

    The Nietzsche version of this is to think about one's life if it were to be repeated, exactly as one has lived it, a thousand times. If that idea isn't good, then what in that life would change?

    ---

    I make the distinction between satisfaction as driven by the unconscious, and then by consciousness: between instincts and awareness. Satisfaction rooted in nature or one rooted in nurture.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

  2. #12
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    It's true in the sense that "good" is a subjective term which is not consistent with any baseline, other than personal experience.

    As such, if yeu experience "good" for too long a time, that becomes the new baseline of "normal" or bland/mediocre/average. We tend to strive to attain more than we currently have, not because we "always want more", but because we aren't satisfied with "good enough" for long periods of time, since it gradually drifts into an average category.

    No matter how intense or amazing yeur life may be, there's always "more" or stuff yeu could do to further that. I wouldn't be surprised if this's a key issue with why so many celebrities end up doing hard drugs... after yeu're rich and famous, then whot do yeu do to improve yeur lifestyle? All yeu can really do is retreat into a fantasy world at that point. Once yeur life is so extreme for so long that yeu consider that 'normal' and boring... there's really just not many places left to go.

    Now, that being said, some are alright with whot they have, never changing... those generally are individuals with brain damage, however, or a severe lack of memory, to the point they don't remember whot they have so it's new every time they see it.

    Even the strictest J, will eventually want more money, a better house, a nicer car, a faster computer, new games, new opponents, new challenges, new 'stuff'. Any, or all, of these can apply, regardless of how static one may desire to be.

    While most people are easily swayed and just want "more", those who are content with whot they have, are still affected, but in a different way. If yeu're alright with the stuff yeu have... then yeu want something else. Spiritual enlightenment. To know more. To understand more.

    These aren't even the only options either... for example, I don't care about how good something looks on a computer, as long as it's fun... yet I'm in a 3d graphics course specializing in game animation. Go figure XD The point is though, I was, and STILL am quite content with the previous games from a decade ago, that still entertain me. I just bought serious sam (first encounter) and the original aliens vs predator today (they were dirt cheap on steam XD ). And yet... I wanted 'more'. Not graphics, but I end up wanting a better computer anyway. Why? Well I learned earlier this week that my computer, although fast for games, flat out doesn't have the processor power to do massive render queues... doing hundreds of frames at a time, or thousands... it helps to have it go faster XD

    I also eventually will tire of the games I have, the programs I use I'll want updated stuff, I'll want something to replace the things I've gotten tired of... and in so doing, I'll be eventually find myself wanting a faster video card, more ram, other computery bits. That kind of stuff. It's a pretty good parallel of an analogy, honestly. Even if yeu have everything yeu could ever dream of right NOW... eventually yeu'll grow tired of whot yeu have, and someone else will have dreamed of something more interesting than yeu have right now... and yeu're going to want it. It's an endless cycle.

    But yeah, I don't think it's that we're never satisfied. I think it's moreso that we're satisfied but only temporarily, until we get bored, or our standard of quality increases over time as we improve our lifestyle over time. On the surface, it looks very similar, but the mechanics behind it are quite different.

  3. #13
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Sticks are weapons, and I use it to kill you if you steal my food. It has practical value, it's a direct tool.
    Your new iPod is not used for anything. It's not a music device, it is a status symbol and a means of manipulation, it's a simulacrum. We're buying shit and selling shit, and the meaning is gradually lost. It's not the same at all.
    Interesting you say that. But I disagree. At least I think I'm an exception to that rule. For example, I didn't get a mobile phone until I had to for work and ever since mainly only used it for work. In fact, all things I own, I own because I have a firm use for it. If I don't have a use for it, I don't want it. I don't own anything nor ever have owned anything as a symbol/status. In school I dresses my own way and not like others. I bought music I liked and not what my friends liked. I bought electronic stuff when I had a need for it, better computers to keep up with the game trend and nothing more than that. New cloths only when I need them. I can't remember a single thing I ever bought that I didn't have a practical use for.

    Also, I don't have an ipod.

    So for me the meaning isn't lost.

    Maybe this is why I am satisfied?
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #14
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    What is so wrong about satisfaction and gratification? This thread seems to question it from the stance that it is somewhat of an abomination. I'm perfectly fine with seeking pleasurable things and obtaining materials.

    I suppose that this 'anti-satisfaction' thought process has been given root by the religious, the spiritualistic and those others who have desire to deviate from the natural, the self and the material, in order to transcend those things in some way or another.

    I wonder why humanity hates itself so much and I wonder why we choose to live in another world instead of this one. Interesting.

    Oh, and I don't have a problem with people being disatisfied and seeking more. In case I didn't make that clear enough.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  5. #15
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    What is so wrong about satisfaction and gratification? This thread seems to question it from the stance that it is somewhat of an abomination. I'm perfectly fine with seeking pleasurable things and obtaining materials.

    I suppose that this 'anti-satisfaction' thought process has been given root by the religious, the spiritualistic and those others who have desire to deviate from the natural, the self and the material, in order to transcend those things in some way or another.

    I wonder why humanity hates itself so much and I wonder why we choose to live in another world instead of this one. Interesting.

    Oh, and I don't have a problem with people being disatisfied and seeking more. In case I didn't make that clear enough.
    The question was is satisfaction possible, not is satisfaction bad

    I started the argument about satisfaction being analogous to buying crap you don't really need, i think it was much easier to reach satisfaction when we were a more primitive species.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    As long as there is variety I think humans can be satisfied for long periods of time.

    Like any NP will tell you though there is nothing more boring than boredom, so ...the wheel of fate must keep on turning.

  7. #17
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    What is so wrong about satisfaction and gratification? This thread seems to question it from the stance that it is somewhat of an abomination. I'm perfectly fine with seeking pleasurable things and obtaining materials.
    Nothing, if you don't collect materials only for the sake of collecting materials. Even then, it's not wrong if you don't forget to realize that you're part of the collective hallucination of pretending to buy and stell stuff instead of actually doing things.

    Seek pleasure without losing the big picture, and obtain things for the sake of getting closer to your goals. Understand the process, and if you choose to participate in it, clarify the reasons to yourself. Then you're free to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    I suppose that this 'anti-satisfaction' thought process has been given root by the religious [...]
    Yes, on a superficial level. But it has always been an opposite reaction to insufferable existential crises en masse, christianity would be nowhere without the cultural and moral void of ancient Rome.

    I don't want to get into this, since as you can see, I don't share this 'anti-satisfaction' you're speaking of. I'm against accepting something you don't understand. I also think that contentment is less achievable while people are being busy buying and selling simulacra instead of buying and selling tools to achieve the direction they've set for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    I wonder why humanity hates itself so much and I wonder why we choose to live in another world instead of this one. Interesting.
    Humanity does not hate itself, it strives for perfection, and tends to screw things up in the process. At least for now.
    Nor do I hate humanity, because I see the tremendous effort and possibilities in their past and in their future. I do not like most individuals or groups of people though.

  8. #18
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Look at it this way:

    We all have goals or wants.

    What happens when you meet one of your goals?

    You feel good for a bit, but then what? You either make a new goal, or end up feeling depressed because you have nothing to do. It's very rare to find someone who accomplishes his/her goal and then completely content later.

    Basically, you want something, and then once you get it, you want something else, even if that something else is completely unrelated to the first want.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
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    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  9. #19
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Upon reflection I'm pretty satisfied with a lot of things, I dont experience envy or jealousy or competitiveness in the average person I suspect and I'll be honest that most people who I have discovered who are motivated by those things are in reality covering up for massive inadequacy.

    The only things that I do buy which I guilt myself about a bit are books and DVDs, not because I think its avaratious, although I do possess more than I need or can use at any one time (time was I only owned one book at a time which I had not read and if I owned more books than that it was because I wanted to proudly display them, either to tell a story about myself or to reread them), but because it takes up a lot of space in my room.

    If I couldnt buy books tommorrow I'd be satisfied with the ones I have, in a way I think it comes down to appetite, I've got a big appetite for most things, food, sex, philosophy, fiction, entertainment, and I can over do it sometimes, although I can feel very pleasantly satisfied sometimes too. I can sit back and think that relative to some parts of the world or some times in history I'm living like a complete and utter king. Even if relative to people in my own country or time I may not be.

    So satisfaction with needs, pretty much, satisfaction with people, my friends, a love interest, work colleagues? It could improve a lot. I dont have any love interest really (apart from one who never is in regular contact anymore), I dont have a lot of friends and seldom see them, work is fine I guess but I dont like a lot of the people, they all have what appear to me to be glaring problems but which somehow dont phase them or make them think "man, I should do some work". So less satisfaction. Spiritually or philosophically? I'm satisfied to some exent but uncertain and that uncertainty leads to striving for more growth or development in this respect. So satisfied but not completely.

    It depends how you phrase it because to be entirely satisfied with a bad lot or situation surely isnt a good thing?

  10. #20
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    It depends how you phrase it because to be entirely satisfied with a bad lot or situation surely isnt a good thing?
    Mostly this, though it does eventually lead to the question... 'how do yeu define whot a bad lot or situation is?'.

    And that leads into whot I was saying earlier... the only thing we have to determine whot's good and bad, is our own subjective view. We set our own baseline, based on whot we have experienced. As such, we are ALWAYS seeking to improve our situation, regardless, because our situation will eventually be considered 'normal', if nothing changes, simply due to how we adapt to our environment. If yeu'd lived with indoor plumbing yeur whole life... then lived somewhere for a few weeks that had none, yeu'd consider that "bad". Yet people, for thousands of years, did not have indoor plumbing... To further this, if yeu stayed there for years instead of weeks, yeu'd eventually be used to it, and it'd be 'normal' again. Yeu'd want indoor plumbing again because that'd be PREFERRED and an improvement over yeur current situation, but yeu wouldn't resent the lack of such after dealing without for an extended period.

    As such... who has a bad situation? Everyone who has gone downward from their previous situation, because their previous 'normal' is their personal point of reference to determine whot 'bad' is in the first place.

    Therefore, almost anyone who has a downward shift in whot they once had, will realize they're in a "bad" situation. Those whom improve their situation, will generally realize they're now in a "good" situation, regardless of where their starting point was. This can lead to odd cases where one person can feel that they are on the top of the world, with a wonderful life... and another person, in the same position, can feel that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    Everything is subjective to the viewer.

    But yes, once yeu believe yeurself to be in a "bad" situation, yeu should automatically seek a way to improve it. Otherwise... the mental and emotional problems that will soon accompany it will often be crippling. Especially if yeu fell a long distance from yeur previous 'normal' zone.

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