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  1. #1
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Default Raised Catholic then seperated away

    I'm just writing a quick post and I'll elaborate more later. My family, mother and father's side are all Catholic. I was raised in the Catholic church. However, as I went through my teen years, and I learned more about myself and the world, I realized how narrow minded I was being. Without the help of religion, I build my life around logic and practicality. I have a responsibility to myself to push my own thought process, challenge my viewpoints and learn about outside viewpoints.

    As an ISTJ, using those principles, I just couldn't take in Catholicism anymore. I started to realize how much religion was debated and uncertain in the world and I couldn't allow myself to have "faith" in something that I could easy find reasons not to believe in. I held a higher respect for logically criticizing viewpoints rather than the church. I'm not bashing current believers, but as I learned more about myself and my own standards, I couldn't do it anymore.

    I'm not sure what I believe. I tend to think of myself as Agnostic, but to me, it seems like there's still so much for us as a race to learn about our own minds and the universe that goes far beyond our current constructs of religion. Anyway, that's it. I'll add more later.


  2. #2
    Member ElizaJane's Avatar
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    Hi Raz. I understand where you're coming from. I think it's great that you're allowing for a little mystery to exist. I've known a lot of people who became an atheist or a believer and then expected that approach to answer all of the questions one might have. Then, when all questions couldn't be answered, they turned whole-heartedly in the other direction. For many people, the pendulum keeps swinging, or they become so bitter about one side that they can't have a polite conversation about it.

    I was raised Catholic, left, came back, left, and came back. I hope you find some peace about things soon!

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    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    I think it's healthy that you're keeping your mind open. I'm the same way. Raised Catholic, and from the very beginning I questioned everything, and after a while realized that the Church contradicts itself too many times for me to take seriously. I'm agnostic as well, since I pretty much felt forced into the faith and saw a lot of things wrong with it, like any institution, religious or not.

    I think you'd be better off seeing religion as more of a 'guideline' rather than a clear-cut set of rules like many people do. Maybe they fear for their souls, don't know any better, or feel most comfortable living that way, but I see that you do not. Take it as a guideline to living, and with that, try and collect more information about other religions and their principles. You might see that in terms of guidelines, they're very similar.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Raised Protestant/Evangelical and I've had to make the same sort of shift. I really really tried to give things a benefit of a doubt and work within that framework, but I was rationally and emotionally conflicted the entire time-- especially when I got out of the cloistered environment and realized what a variety of beliefs existed and what basis they existed on. It gave me some perspective. It was hard to allow myself to change because I didn't want to make a mistake, and I also knew I would lose some friends/standing in my community and yet had no place to go, but once I made more room for ambiguity and mystery in my outlook, I was much happier and whole.

    I think it always better to be honest where you're at than in playing games with yourself. Sometimes we do have to "try things on" to see how they fit, but at some point it's not worth continuing to try to cram that mis-sized shoe on your foot.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I'm just writing a quick post and I'll elaborate more later. My family, mother and father's side are all Catholic. I was raised in the Catholic church. However, as I went through my teen years, and I learned more about myself and the world, I realized how narrow minded I was being. Without the help of religion, I build my life around logic and practicality. I have a responsibility to myself to push my own thought process, challenge my viewpoints and learn about outside viewpoints.

    As an ISTJ, using those principles, I just couldn't take in Catholicism anymore. I started to realize how much religion was debated and uncertain in the world and I couldn't allow myself to have "faith" in something that I could easy find reasons not to believe in. I held a higher respect for logically criticizing viewpoints rather than the church. I'm not bashing current believers, but as I learned more about myself and my own standards, I couldn't do it anymore.

    I'm not sure what I believe. I tend to think of myself as Agnostic, but to me, it seems like there's still so much for us as a race to learn about our own minds and the universe that goes far beyond our current constructs of religion. Anyway, that's it. I'll add more later.
    I think perhaps that this is not an uncommon juvenile and maturational rite of passage, you grow up, the understandings you had as a kid dont suffice any longer, you either develop them or dispense with them.

    I went through a phase where I was very prepared to take agnosticism and even athiesm seriously, at least examine all their premises, it didnt last however, I returned to professing Roman Catholicism.

    Presently I've been assailed by doubts like what I've never experienced before, even during that agnostic/philosophical revere (spelling), but to be uncertain of something is not to plain disbelieve it and I'm reading a lot of interesting spiritual texts, The Cloud of Unknowing, The Interior Castle, The Dark Night of The Soul and some Jungian psychology too forming a kind of bridge to an earlier self which was much more absorbed in secular psychology.

    I wish you luck in whatever course you chart and however you frame and meet your needs, I personally dont think the "God shaped" hole will go away or be rationalised away as anything else than what it is (and there are some excellent alternative explanations for it, attachment, addiction, internalised scripts).

    A possible cavet being that I dont believe religion by itself, if observed strictly as a dogma or tradition is sufficient either, no more than you can expect the exact same experience from rereading a favourite book, sharing that book with a friend and then soliciting their opinions.

    Disbelief is fashionable and en vogue like it never was before, it's certainly the greater challenge to ask "how can there be no God?" than "Is there a God?", a Godless logic (which isnt the only sort) is upheld as the grown up, courageous, clever thing to profess and we suppose we are rational instead of simply rationalising (a curious, curious thing given that science suggests we share common ancestory with animals for whom instinct and intuition overwhelms logic or reason as a trait of mind. Most religious either concur or dont care whether this is true or not.). It wasnt always so, culture can determine what is estimable to think and believe and provide a pressure of which it is possible to be barely even aware.

    Good Luck friend.

  6. #6
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I'm just writing a quick post and I'll elaborate more later. My family, mother and father's side are all Catholic. I was raised in the Catholic church.
    Same here pretty much.

    I'll always believe in God and my upbringing helped to shape that.

    However, the Catholic religion felt a bit too traditional or constraining. Their view on birth control for example - they're just out of step with the times.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Same here pretty much.

    I'll always believe in God and my upbringing helped to shape that.

    However, the Catholic religion felt a bit too traditional or constraining. Their view on birth control for example - they're just out of step with the times.
    Which one's that now? What times?

    Not issuing a challenge here, just interested, always eager to learn from others.

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    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Which one's that now? What times?

    Not issuing a challenge here, just interested, always eager to learn from others.
    I've been going to this place for years.

    Willow Creek Community Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Not as much lately as I should though. Sometimes people can be a little over the top on things but overall, it's a better fit for me personally.

    For anybody who lives in the SF Bay Area, there is a guy - John Ortberg who is an amazing pastor/educator that used to be at Willow. If you live there, you should visit one of his services.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I've been going to this place for years.

    Willow Creek Community Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Not as much lately as I should though. Sometimes people can be a little over the top on things but overall, it's a better fit for me personally.
    You've been going to Willow Creek? Awesome.
    Yeah, I know who Ortberg is.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I've been going to this place for years.

    Willow Creek Community Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Not as much lately as I should though. Sometimes people can be a little over the top on things but overall, it's a better fit for me personally.

    For anybody who lives in the SF Bay Area, there is a guy - John Ortberg who is an amazing pastor/educator that used to be at Willow. If you live there, you should visit one of his services.
    I'm going to sound sectarian but what the hell, it sounds very much stuck in the schism era of Christianity, mumbo jumbo about grace and being saved is totally going to deter the very people Jesus came to put a message across to.

    More and more convinced that Tolstoy's cut the crap Christianity was doing everyone a favour.

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