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  1. #41
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So many worship God, but can't be bothered to learn His language.
    i think we're all capable, it just appears that some can unlock that Gift inside us better than others. i don't know why. Some just really seem to have the Gift. some do not and it requires much more effort from them to learn than those who do; i'm certainly one of the latter i appreciate its complexity nonetheless.

    i think one thing that all walks of belief seem to have right, whether it involves God or no God, is that whatever's going on, it's faaaaar beyond our current level of understanding.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    ...whatever's going on, it's faaaaar beyond our current level of understanding.
    But understandable.

    For instance I don't understand you yet, but yet you are understandable - same for the universe.

    Indeed, it may be strings theory that helps us understand the universe.

    So here you are, your very name proof that we can understand the universe and everything.

  3. #43
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We are part of the tree of life, the DNA tree. We all share the same DNA whether we are a banana, a bacteria or Stringstheory.

    It is possible there is another DNA tree on Earth but so far we haven't discovered it.

    So we are all one at the most intimate level - the level of the cell.

    To divide us into humans and animals is the merest hubris.

    Once in our infancy we thought we were the centre of the universe, but we find we are not.
    And in our infancy we thought God created the world for us. In fact we thought God created the animals for us.
    This is solipsism taken to the nth degree.

    And as we have slowly grown up we find astronomy tells us that everywhere is the centre of the universe. In other words, no matter where you stand, in which galaxy, that is where the big bang began.

    And as we grow up biology tells us we were not created specially by the hand of God, but rather by natural selection, exactly the same as every other living creature.
    I agree with all of the above, and appreciate how well you have expressed it. But none of this requires the absence of deity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Anyway, we don't speak the language, for the language of astronomy and biology is mathematics. And we are illiterate.

    Some say the mathematics is the language of God, but who could be bothered learning it? It's boring. And hardly anybody speaks it anyhow. So what use is mathematics? What has mathematics done for me lately?
    What use is mathematics? As a scientist I use it daily in my work. Simply as a responsible adult, however, I also use it to comparison shop, to make investment decisions, to plan my budget. Unfortunately you are correct that many people are innumerate, sometimes proudly so. (But who would be proud that they could not read???) They don't understand compound interest, can't compare products sold in different sizes, can't assess financial risk and benefit in any meaningful way. I have even seen innumeracy blamed for the recent economic troubles (see below).

    Why nerds must rescue the American economy - Technology & science - Tech and gadgets - Stop Getting Ripped Off - msnbc.com

    Aesthetic and spiritual implications of mathematics aside, even an atheist can appreciate the significance of math, or suffer for not doing so.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    i dunno, I see a little bit of a paradox in there...if we are to assume that humans are just animals, how is one supposed to be "more human than animal" or "more animal than human"?
    You exercise free will and choose to be more than your origins.

  5. #45
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    Smile As silly as Zeus or Poseidon

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    But none of this requires the absence of deity.
    It's true, biology and astronomy don't require the absence of a deity.

    And its equally true that biology and astronomy don't require the presence of a deity.

    So some say that the presence of the deity is only concealed by their absence.

    While I say a deity is as silly as Zeus or Poseidon.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What use is mathematics? As a scientist I use it daily in my work. Simply as a responsible adult, however, I also use it to comparison shop, to make investment decisions, to plan my budget.
    It is pure mathematics or mathematics for its own sake that might be called the language of God.

    And so one might say that applied mathematics is the language of His priesthood.

    Although I found the door into mathematics through the philosophy of mathematics. So although I am neither a linguist or a priest of mathematics, I am a fellow traveller.

  7. #47
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's true, biology and astronomy don't require the absence of a deity.

    And its equally true that biology and astronomy don't require the presence of a deity.

    So some say that the presence of the deity is only concealed by their absence.

    While I say a deity is as silly as Zeus or Poseidon
    .
    I don't understand this. Nothing we know about the natural world requires the existence or nonexistence of deity. This is why true atheism is just as much a belief as any religious faith. Agnosticism is the only objectively supportable position. Any other position is taken on subjective grounds. There is nothing wrong with this, but people do look foolish when they try to justify these positions as objective and factual.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't understand this. Nothing we know about the natural world requires the existence or nonexistence of deity. This is why true atheism is just as much a belief as any religious faith. Agnosticism is the only objectively supportable position. Any other position is taken on subjective grounds. There is nothing wrong with this, but people do look foolish when they try to justify these positions as objective and factual.
    Sure, agnosticism does seem to be the more supportable position. But when I consider that we have created ten thousand gods, and most of them silly, it seems to me to be silly to believe in any one of them.

    Of course some say it is silly not to believe in one of them or all of them.

    So I leave it to the members of Typology Central to decide who is the biggest silly.

  9. #49
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    i dunno, I see a little bit of a paradox in there...if we are to assume that humans are just animals, how is one supposed to be "more human than animal" or "more animal than human"?
    Humans are animals, but there is nothing "just" about it. The problem comes when, instead of trying to be the best human animals we can, we settle for behavior more typical of other animals. This makes as much sense as expecting a goldfish to learn to play fetch. If we have abilities that are unique in the animal kingdom, we should certainly develop them. At the same time, we have much to learn from the other animals. They do not appear to kill for pleasure; they don't torture, or lie; and they usually have their priorities straight. The instincts we share with them are as valid and worthwhile as any of our other abilities. The key is to use all of them wisely, and not to be used by them.

  10. #50
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Sure, agnosticism does seem to be the more supportable position. But when I consider that we have created ten thousand gods, and most of them silly, it seems to me to be silly to believe in any one of them.

    Of course some say it is silly not to believe in one of them or all of them.
    I may not be able to relate much to Posideon, or Zeus, or other representations of deity, but I would not call them silly. While popular culture often depicts them as simplistic and two-dimensional, a closer inspection reveals much more complexity, all tied in (of course) with the nature of the society that venerated them. Perhaps it is just a result of my own personal perspective. I tend to see the gods and goddesses in the various pantheons as different facets of a single infinite divine entity. As such, even if a few come off as silly (there are, after all, trickster gods), well -- I can be silly, too, at times. I think humans suffer more when their images of God are bereft of humor and playfulness.

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