Stephen Frys Beautiful words on a world without God

[TickTock]

I'll let the video (audio) speak for itself.


[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q715ty5hLt4"][/YOUTUBE]

YouTube - Stephen Fry's beautiful comments on a world without God.

 

[Shimmy]

Stephen Fry is the epitome of Secular Humanism. And he's kind of a magician with words, there's no one who can make an aesthetic case for atheism like he can (Richard Dawkins for instance approaches atheism from a more scientific point of view.)

 

[Lark]

It still has no appeal to me what so ever, although I've had major doubts more recently about my once certain religious convictions there is nothing beautiful or appealing what so ever about athiesm, it is not glorious, it is inglorious, it is a celebration of hopelessness and despair that others may be shaken and share in it too.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

It still has no appeal to me what so ever, although I've had major doubts more recently about my once certain religious convictions there is nothing beautiful or appealing what so ever about athiesm, it is not glorious, it is inglorious, it is a celebration of hopelessness and despair that others may be shaken and share in it too.

Apparently that's what it is for you. But do try to understand that's not what it is for many others, and that other people, like me, do not need a higher power to supply hope, or glory, or what-have-you.

 

[Mole]

I am immensely impressed by Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens. On the other hand I am given pause by the Godless regimes of the Soviet Union, the Peoples Republic of China, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge and North Korea today.

 

[TickTock]

I am immensely impressed by Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens. On the other hand I am given pause by the Godless regimes of the Soviet Union, the Peoples Republic of China, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge and North Korea today.

That's a very black and white way of looking at the situation. I.E. those negative regimes are godless therefore all godless people can be associated with a negative regime.

 

[Lark]

Apparently that's what it is for you. But do try to understand that's not what it is for many others, and that other people, like me, do not need a higher power to supply hope, or glory, or what-have-you.

You may not but the clue is in the very beginning of the clip, Fry speaks for athiesm but the original speaker speaks about an anti-theist society, the point about glory is made my Fry too, he used the phraseology and I just used the same language in making my point.

Similarly I was making a point in response to Fry's comments about Shelley's poem, the decline of religious inspiration or aesthetics, I was making a point about the supposed beauty of the remarks etc. Not a general point about your beliefs or anyone elses.

Infact you make the converse point to the one I was making, while Fry's remarks may seem pretty to some, just before the back slapping kicked in, I wanted to point out that for some the opposite is in fact true and exactly why.

 

[Lark]

That's a very black and white way of looking at the situation. I.E. those negative regimes are godless therefore all godless people can be associated with a negative regime.

A little like the arguments made against religion and relgious people, dont you think?

 

[Helios]

It still has no appeal to me what so ever, although I've had major doubts more recently about my once certain religious convictions there is nothing beautiful or appealing what so ever about athiesm, it is not glorious, it is inglorious, it is a celebration of hopelessness and despair that others may be shaken and share in it too.

Atheism is simply the position that there exist no deities, or something closely akin to this. It is not a celebration of anything.

 

[Coriolis]

That's a very black and white way of looking at the situation. I.E. those negative regimes are godless therefore all godless people can be associated with a negative regime.

Not to mention all the "godly" evil regimes, like the Islamic theocracies in the Middle East. Of course, Muslims don't have a monopoly on oppression. The Inquisition, after all, was not promulgated by atheists.

 

[Sniffles]

The Inquisition, after all, was not promulgated by atheists.

[youtube="CSe38dzJYkY"]Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition![/youtube]

 

[TickTock]

There you go.

 

[Lark]

Atheism is simply the position that there exist no deities, or something closely akin to this. It is not a celebration of anything.

That may be what atheism is but its not what the link was about.

 

[Lark]

Not to mention all the "godly" evil regimes, like the Islamic theocracies in the Middle East. Of course, Muslims don't have a monopoly on oppression. The Inquisition, after all, was not promulgated by atheists.

No but the holocaust, gulags, pol pot, shinning path, FARC (need I do on?) would give the inquisition a run for its money wouldnt you say? A great man once said remove the plank from your own eye before you worry about the splinter in mine.

Peguy is having a laugh but there's an important point, the inquisition would in all likelihood have been shocking to one of us in modern times but by the standard of the day, when just about every lord had a torture chamber to keep the serfs in line and principalities used it regularly (Machavelli had his nose smashed by being hosted and then dropped from a roof beam) it was nothing special. Its been exaggerated in successive anti-clerical waves ever since, until it comes down to today when people repeat it as received wisdom without thinking to question it. Would almost make you believe in memetics.

Ultimately people can find beauty in a world without God, its the flip side of the Jesuit finding God in all things, to them I say good luck, they dont experience the "God shaped hole" which I think everyone has (before anyone flips out this can be rationalised as a need for attachment or a myriad of things other than an actual existing diety, dont worry, I'm not here to shake your convictions or sow doubts if you're happy).

 

[Helios]

That may be what atheism is but its not what the link was about.

And so? You made a false claim, viz.:

there is nothing beautiful or appealing what so ever about athiesm, it is not glorious, it is inglorious, it is a celebration of hopelessness and despair that others may be shaken and share in it too.

I addressed this specifically. What the linked video is about is irrelevant to the truth value of your claim.

 

[Coriolis]

No but the holocaust, gulags, pol pot, shinning path, FARC (need I do on?) would give the inquisition a run for its money wouldnt you say? A great man once said remove the plank from your own eye before you worry about the splinter in mine.

I would be hard put to say whether worse atrocities were committed under the Inquisition, or under the regimes you cite, not all of which are atheistic, by the way. In any event, the Inquisition carried on much longer, but that is beside the point. The point is that neither atheistic regimes nor regimes involving religion have a monopoly on persecution and oppression, though the justifications usually differ. The capacity for institutionalized cruelty seems just part of the human condition.

 

[Take Five]

I would be hard put to say whether worse atrocities were committed under the Inquisition, or under the regimes you cite, not all of which are atheistic, by the way. In any event, the Inquisition carried on much longer, but that is beside the point. The point is that neither atheistic regimes nor regimes involving religion have a monopoly on persecution and oppression, though the justifications usually differ. The capacity for institutionalized cruelty seems just part of the human condition.

Actually the gulags and holocaust alone, plus the whole NKVD-->KGB, and God knows what else in China and N Korea pretty much blow the Inquisition out of the water. In the end, neither has a monopoly, because humans aren't perfect, but I don't think they're even either.

 

[Sniffles]

The Inquisition had a very low execution rate, somewhere around 1.8-2% with an average of 3 people per year. Scholars have also discovered that torture was rarely used due to restrictions - such as no blood could be spilled.

 

[Daedalus]

No but the holocaust, gulags, pol pot, shinning path, FARC (need I do on?) would give the inquisition a run for its money wouldnt you say? A great man once said remove the

What makes you think Hitler was An Atheist?
His entire Nazi propaganda was based on a religion he and his cohorts constructed. With heavy Christian and some pagan influences(perverted version of early neo paganism).

Btw there is also the issue of the Odessa connection; where the Vatican made safe passage possible for the worst of the Nazis.

Fascism, by its nature, adopts the religious and cultural norms of the environment it exists in to gain a foothold in the population.
If the Inquisition and the crusades and the Jihads had anything resembling the modern weapons available during the ww1/2, the European/middle eastern populations would have almost dwindled to nothingness.




GOTT MIT UNS

"God Is With Us"
Standard Issue Nazi Soldiers' Belt Buckle

 

[Sniffles]

Fascism, by its nature, adopts the religious and cultural norms of the environment it exists in to gain a foothold in the population.

Yes they're ersatz religions, so what?

If the Inquisition and the crusades and the Jihads had anything resembling the modern weapons available during the ww1/2, the European/middle eastern populations would have almost dwindled to nothingness.

That's largely speculation really. Given the basic nature of Medieval thinking and society, such mass slaughter would've been out of the question.