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  1. #1
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    Default Crude Poetic Justice?

    Crude Poetic Justice?

    Wikipedia informs me that “poetic justice” is a notion that fictional literature takes on as a cultural demand whereby literary outcomes must support moral standards by justifying in the end the virtuous behavior of the good guy and punishing the bad behavior of the bad guy. Furthermore logic is also maintained.

    How can our (American) present troubles be considered as poetic justice?

    Let us just examine the great human manufactured catastrophes visited upon us in the last few years; the Great Crude Oil Smear, the deadliest mine disaster in three decades, the greatest financial catastrophe since the Great Depression, and the looming global climate change induced by human activity.

    The common element in all of these catastrophes is our three decade guiding premise that Government is the problem while Free Market forces are the solution.

    Poetic Justice results because the American people are punished, with a great crude oil smear, by the logic of their commitment to the free market and their dark suspicion of government regulation.

    Perhaps God is a practical joker!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    Poetic Justice results because the American people are punished, with a great crude oil smear, by the logic of their commitment to the free market and their dark suspicion of government regulation.

    Perhaps God is a practical joker!
    In a country founded by religion and with, "In God We Trust", written on the currency, which is the Reserve Currency of the world, it is natural to think that God is punishing you when you have bad luck.

    Just as the mullahs tell us that earthquakes are punishment for immodest women.

    And when God is punishing us our first impulse is to make blood sacrifice. So we send off our children to make blood sacrifice in war. But we are not completely stupid and our body bags are disproportionately full of blacks and poor whites.

    But consider, when you have had the greatest financial tragedy since the Great Depression, we have not even gone into Recession. We have not needed to bail our even one of our banks, instead we gave money to the poor and needy and kept our economy afloat.

    This is the difference between a country based on religion and a country based on the Enlightenment.

    Poetry is just magic, it does nothing, just like religion.

    And making blood sacrifice to appease an angry God is barbaric.

  3. #3
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    what sort of horrible person is always so happy to condemn an entire country for the actions of a few people?

    that goes for both you and this "god" creature Victor

    it's funny... almost every stance you've made against the US comes from the words of your politicians...

    I've got no strings
    To hold me down
    To make me fret, or make me frown
    I had strings
    But now I'm free
    There are no strings on me


    now dance
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #4
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Connecting the oil spill to free market or to God is frankly stupid. As usual, those who are obsessed with poetic language and metaphors have jumped to unreasonable conclusions. Bad things happen indiscriminately. It has nothing to do with markets, God, or currency, or "Enlightenment." And I would hardly call it justice for the fishermen who are suffering on the coast.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    what sort of horrible person is always so happy to condemn an entire country for the actions of a few people?

    that goes for both you and this "god" creature Victor

    it's funny... almost every stance you've made against the US comes from the words of your politicians...

    I've got no strings
    To hold me down
    To make me fret, or make me frown
    I had strings
    But now I'm free
    There are no strings on me


    now dance
    War is the action of a whole country. In fact war defines the group fantasy of a whole country.

    And indeed the American Dream defines the group fantasy of a whole country.

    And indeed blood sacrifice is made for the whole country. Americans routinely say to soldiers, "Thank you for keeping us safe", that is, thank you for keeping the whole country safe.

    And it is simply a religious belief that blood sacrifice will appease an angry God.

  6. #6
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Fuck that... I didn't support the war... I don't support most of my country's foreign policy actions, but you know what? I am an American

    Don't define a person by where they're born

    Don't define a group by some of it's members (unless you enjoy taking responsibility for the Lost Generation)

    Don't punish the innocent for the sins of others

    You're committing a MAJOR logical fallacy by applying the attitudes of a few to the entire group- by that definition we should imprison all white males since most serial killers are white males :rolli:

    you know what? I don't support many of the decisions that my country makes, I didn't choose to be born here, but I sure as hell don't appreciate your constant attacks on Americans either- It shows intolerance and spite on your part, which isn't becoming

    your constant baiting in threads makes you appear to be a bit of a troller, if you know what I'm talking about
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    Connecting the oil spill to free market or to God is frankly stupid. As usual, those who are obsessed with poetic language and metaphors have jumped to unreasonable conclusions. Bad things happen indiscriminately. It has nothing to do with markets, God, or currency, or "Enlightenment." And I would hardly call it justice for the fishermen who are suffering on the coast.
    I am obsessed with poetic language and metaphors. I know their power and their limits.

    Metaphors are a bridge between what we know and what we don't know. And we are the only animals that make metaphors. Even computers don't make metaphor, so far.

    Metaphors inform our national group fantasy.

    For instance, we have a national group fantasy that is different from your group fantasy.

    But literacy has taught us to focus on our individual fantasies, at the expense of learning about our national group fantasies.

    But the internet brings our national group fantasies face to face.

    And what an unpleasant surprise that is. For we discover that, not only are our group fantasies taken for granted, but our group fantasies are quite different.

    And the first mistake we make is to try to impose our national group fantasies on the other national group fantasies.

    Some group fantasies are far more powerful than others. For instance, if your national economy has been the largest in the world for more than a hundred years, and remains the largest today, backed by the largest group fantasy machine in the world, Hollywood, then you have the power to impose your group fantasy.

    Fortunately group fantasies are taken for granted, and to step outside the taken for granted leads to ecstasy.

    And there are straws in the wind. Kids are taking pills called ekstasi as a step towards stepping outside the taken for granted into ecstasy.

  8. #8
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    ^It's because he is a creature of "Enlightenment"
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  9. #9
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I think that Victor and this version of God would be the bestest friends
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #10
    Oberon
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    There will always be a fair number of people in the world who enjoy building stories in which America, the bad guy, gets his in the end. Whatevs, in your place I wouldn't argue the substance of the premise; that's not the point. The conclusion justifies the story in this case. It's an instance of mental self-pleasuring.

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