Crude Poetic Justice?

[coberst]

Crude Poetic Justice?

Wikipedia informs me that “poetic justice” is a notion that fictional literature takes on as a cultural demand whereby literary outcomes must support moral standards by justifying in the end the virtuous behavior of the good guy and punishing the bad behavior of the bad guy. Furthermore logic is also maintained.

How can our (American) present troubles be considered as poetic justice?

Let us just examine the great human manufactured catastrophes visited upon us in the last few years; the Great Crude Oil Smear, the deadliest mine disaster in three decades, the greatest financial catastrophe since the Great Depression, and the looming global climate change induced by human activity.

The common element in all of these catastrophes is our three decade guiding premise that Government is the problem while Free Market forces are the solution.

Poetic Justice results because the American people are punished, with a great crude oil smear, by the logic of their commitment to the free market and their dark suspicion of government regulation.

Perhaps God is a practical joker!

 

[Mole]

Poetic Justice results because the American people are punished, with a great crude oil smear, by the logic of their commitment to the free market and their dark suspicion of government regulation.

Perhaps God is a practical joker!

In a country founded by religion and with, "In God We Trust", written on the currency, which is the Reserve Currency of the world, it is natural to think that God is punishing you when you have bad luck.

Just as the mullahs tell us that earthquakes are punishment for immodest women.

And when God is punishing us our first impulse is to make blood sacrifice. So we send off our children to make blood sacrifice in war. But we are not completely stupid and our body bags are disproportionately full of blacks and poor whites.

But consider, when you have had the greatest financial tragedy since the Great Depression, we have not even gone into Recession. We have not needed to bail our even one of our banks, instead we gave money to the poor and needy and kept our economy afloat.

This is the difference between a country based on religion and a country based on the Enlightenment.

Poetry is just magic, it does nothing, just like religion.

And making blood sacrifice to appease an angry God is barbaric.

 

[miss fortune]

what sort of horrible person is always so happy to condemn an entire country for the actions of a few people?

that goes for both you and this "god" creature Victor

it's funny... almost every stance you've made against the US comes from the words of your politicians...

I've got no strings
To hold me down
To make me fret, or make me frown
I had strings
But now I'm free
There are no strings on me

now dance

 

[Take Five]

Connecting the oil spill to free market or to God is frankly stupid. As usual, those who are obsessed with poetic language and metaphors have jumped to unreasonable conclusions. Bad things happen indiscriminately. It has nothing to do with markets, God, or currency, or "Enlightenment." And I would hardly call it justice for the fishermen who are suffering on the coast.

 

[Mole]

what sort of horrible person is always so happy to condemn an entire country for the actions of a few people?

that goes for both you and this "god" creature Victor

it's funny... almost every stance you've made against the US comes from the words of your politicians...

I've got no strings
To hold me down
To make me fret, or make me frown
I had strings
But now I'm free
There are no strings on me

now dance

War is the action of a whole country. In fact war defines the group fantasy of a whole country.

And indeed the American Dream defines the group fantasy of a whole country.

And indeed blood sacrifice is made for the whole country. Americans routinely say to soldiers, "Thank you for keeping us safe", that is, thank you for keeping the whole country safe.

And it is simply a religious belief that blood sacrifice will appease an angry God.

 

[miss fortune]

Fuck that... I didn't support the war... I don't support most of my country's foreign policy actions, but you know what? I am an American

Don't define a person by where they're born

Don't define a group by some of it's members (unless you enjoy taking responsibility for the Lost Generation)

Don't punish the innocent for the sins of others

You're committing a MAJOR logical fallacy by applying the attitudes of a few to the entire group- by that definition we should imprison all white males since most serial killers are white males :rolli:

you know what? I don't support many of the decisions that my country makes, I didn't choose to be born here, but I sure as hell don't appreciate your constant attacks on Americans either- It shows intolerance and spite on your part, which isn't becoming

your constant baiting in threads makes you appear to be a bit of a troller, if you know what I'm talking about

 

[Mole]

Connecting the oil spill to free market or to God is frankly stupid. As usual, those who are obsessed with poetic language and metaphors have jumped to unreasonable conclusions. Bad things happen indiscriminately. It has nothing to do with markets, God, or currency, or "Enlightenment." And I would hardly call it justice for the fishermen who are suffering on the coast.

I am obsessed with poetic language and metaphors. I know their power and their limits.

Metaphors are a bridge between what we know and what we don't know. And we are the only animals that make metaphors. Even computers don't make metaphor, so far.

Metaphors inform our national group fantasy.

For instance, we have a national group fantasy that is different from your group fantasy.

But literacy has taught us to focus on our individual fantasies, at the expense of learning about our national group fantasies.

But the internet brings our national group fantasies face to face.

And what an unpleasant surprise that is. For we discover that, not only are our group fantasies taken for granted, but our group fantasies are quite different.

And the first mistake we make is to try to impose our national group fantasies on the other national group fantasies.

Some group fantasies are far more powerful than others. For instance, if your national economy has been the largest in the world for more than a hundred years, and remains the largest today, backed by the largest group fantasy machine in the world, Hollywood, then you have the power to impose your group fantasy.

Fortunately group fantasies are taken for granted, and to step outside the taken for granted leads to ecstasy.

And there are straws in the wind. Kids are taking pills called ekstasi as a step towards stepping outside the taken for granted into ecstasy.

 

[Take Five]

^It's because he is a creature of "Enlightenment"

 

[miss fortune]

I think that Victor and this version of God would be the bestest friends

 

[Oberon]

There will always be a fair number of people in the world who enjoy building stories in which America, the bad guy, gets his in the end. Whatevs, in your place I wouldn't argue the substance of the premise; that's not the point. The conclusion justifies the story in this case. It's an instance of mental self-pleasuring.

 

[miss fortune]

ah yes... I know... and I'm not making the point for Victor

though I don't mind dropping in and distracting him so that he keeps his anti-everythingism into only one or two threads though... you know, throwing myself on the grenade that is intolerance

 

[Mole]

Fuck that... I didn't support the war... I don't support most of my country's foreign policy actions, but you know what? I am an American.

Don't define a person by where they're born

Don't define a group by some of it's members (unless you enjoy taking responsibility for the Lost Generation)

Don't punish the innocent for the sins of others

You're committing a MAJOR logical fallacy by applying the attitudes of a few to the entire group- by that definition we should imprison all white males since most serial killers are white males :rolli:

you know what? I don't support many of the decisions that my country makes, I didn't choose to be born here, but I sure as hell don't appreciate your constant attacks on Americans either- It shows intolerance and spite on your part, which isn't becoming

your constant baiting in threads makes you appear to be a bit of a troller, if you know what I'm talking about

I understand you see yourself as an individual. And I understand you see yourself as an individual because you have been compelled to go to school by law to learn to read and write. I understand you see yourself and me as individuals because you are literate.

But here we are face to face in the electronic media that is leading us to come to understand our respective group fantasies.

And I understand this causes you cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful. And so naturally you strike out at me by insulting me and calling me a troll.

And you say above, "I am an American", but in the same breath you instruct me by saying, "Don't define a person by where the are born". But this is precisely what you are doing - you are defining yourself, quite rightly, as an American and of course, I am an Australian.

 

[miss fortune]

I am an American because I choose to be... I could become any other nationality if I wanted as well... and I learned to read from my mother, not the school

I'm just informing you that the shirt that you're wearing isn't a good color on you, Victor.

enjoy the metaphore

always playing the victim :rolli:

 

[Mole]

^It's because he is a creature of "Enlightenment"

It's true, not only am I a creature of the Scottish and English Enlightenment, but my whole country is a creature of the Scottish and English Enlightenment.

We practice the motto of the Enlightenment, "The greatest good for the greatest number". And this is how we deal with your economic meltdown and it worked.

Naturally I do not expect your country to follow the motto of the Enlightenment, and you haven't and so your country, unlike mine, remains in economic difficulty, with huge mortgage foreclosures, unemployment and a working poor.

Our national group fantasies are different and will remain different. And our only hope is to come to understand one another. Slinging insults will not do.

 

[Take Five]

I understand you see yourself as an individual. And I understand you see yourself as an individual because you have been compelled to go to school by law to learn to read and write. I understand you see yourself and me as individuals because you are literate.

But here we are face to face in the electronic media that is leading us to come to understand our respective group fantasies.

And I understand this causes you cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful. And so naturally you strike out at me by insulting me and calling me a troll.

And you say above, "I am an American", but in the same breath you instruct me by saying, "Don't define a person by where the are born". But this is precisely what you are doing - you are defining yourself, quite rightly, as an American and of course, I am an Australian.

You are trolling. Over and over again you take every opportunity to poeticize about your theories of the evil interconnectedness of God and the US and MBTI and Hollywood, then proceed to champion yourself and kin as above-the-fold "Enlightened" thinkers. Because of this shitty attitude, you give it your best shot to derail every thread you can. Minted coins with "In God we trust" and the free market have nothing to do with the oil spill or global warming

 

[Mole]

You are trolling. Over and over again you take every opportunity to poeticize about your theories of the evil interconnectedness of God and the US and MBTI and Hollywood, then proceed to champion yourself and kin as above-the-fold "Enlightened" thinkers. Because of this shitty attitude, you give it your best shot to derail every thread you can. Minted coins with "In God we trust" and the free market have nothing to do with the oil spill or global warming

I can only try to explain it to you.

If you don't understand, my hands are tied.

I am though disappointed you insist on insulting me by calling me a troll.

 

[miss fortune]

once again turning it around and playing the victim after casting the first stone, bravo man

 

[miss fortune]

There will always be a fair number of people in the world who enjoy building stories in which America, the bad guy, gets his in the end. Whatevs, in your place I wouldn't argue the substance of the premise; that's not the point. The conclusion justifies the story in this case. It's an instance of mental self-pleasuring.

yes... I wonder how often he has to shave his mental palms!

 

[Mole]

I am an American because I choose to be... I could become any other nationality if I wanted as well... and I learned to read from my mother, not the school

I'm just informing you that the shirt that you're wearing isn't a good color on you, Victor.

enjoy the metaphore

always playing the victim :rolli:

You have told us you are chronically angry and irritated. So I can understand you find relief in insulting me.

I can't do anything about your chronic anger and irritation but your insults are becoming tiresome.

 

[miss fortune]

dear Victor... we're taking the exact same dance again

1. you insult something

2. I point out that you're being prejudiced by doing so

3. you play victim and accuse me of having deeply seated personal problems

4. you prove that you can't sustain your actual argument

and by the way... understand someone before fucking accusing them of shit- I have my reasons and they're good... but it's left my reasoning intact