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  1. #31
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    dude, you may have just gotten the ignore button as well!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #32
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    dude, you may have just gotten the ignore button as well!
    It would be a proud accomplishment. God bless the USA!!!

    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    what sort of horrible person is always so happy to condemn an entire country for the actions of a few people?

    that goes for both you and this "god" creature Victor

    it's funny... almost every stance you've made against the US comes from the words of your politicians...

    I've got no strings
    To hold me down
    To make me fret, or make me frown
    I had strings
    But now I'm free
    There are no strings on me


    now dance
    In a democracy such as we have in the United States the people are sovereign and thus responsible for the situation that exists. The lack of intellectual sophistication of the citizens is the fault of those citizens.


    The basic problem began when the people allowed them self to be convinced that government was the problem and that the free market was the solution. These problems developed because the American citizen left Corporate America free and unregulated.

  4. #34
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    well, I didn't do it... I couldn't vote until 2001 AND I live in a state where my vote rarely counts thanks to the electoral college, so to condemn me to punishment just because of someone else isn't particularly fair. The same applies to others in my situation and people like children, who have no voice

    I'm a political leftist, fwiw, and have never been for deregulation or corporatization... don't just accept the fact that some people think in a way so everyone has to pay... where's the fairness in that? Get punished by everyone else for not thinking properly and then get punished because it turns out that everyone else was wrong and you were right?!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #35
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    The basic problem began when the people allowed them self to be convinced that government was the problem and that the free market was the solution. These problems developed because the American citizen left Corporate America free and unregulated.
    Thank you for repeating the leftist meme. We get it, thanks.

    Doesn't this belong in the "Everything You Hate About America" thread?

  6. #36
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    totally! I contributed a list of things, but what I hate the most is people who are happy to judge all Americans based on just a few... that's just bullshit
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #37
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  8. #38
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    The American people are too naive to comprehend the problem and too frightened of reality to accept their responsibility.

    An oligarchy controls public policy in America. The oligarchy consists of those who manage the great wealth of American institutions. This oligarchy designs our educational system to graduate good producers and consumers and does not desire independent thinkers.

    CA (Corporate America) has developed a well-honed expertise in motivating the population to behave in a desired manner. Citizens as consumers are ample manifestation of that expertise. CA has accomplished this ability by careful study and implementation of the knowledge of the ways of human behavior. I suspect this same structure applies to most Western democracies.

    A democratic form of government is one wherein the citizens have some voice in some policy decisions. The greater the voice of the citizens the better the democracy. The greater the intellectual sophistication of those citizens the better the democracy.

    In America we have policy makers, decision makers, and citizens. The decision makers are our elected representatives and are, thus, under some control by the voting citizen. The policy makers are the leaders of CA; less than ten thousand individuals, according to those who study such matters. Policy makers exercise significant control of decision makers by controlling the financing of elections.

    Policy makers customize and maintain the dominant ideology in order to control the political behavior of the citizens. This dominant ideology exercises the political control of the citizens in the same fashion as the consuming citizen is controlled by the same dominant ideology.

    An enlightened citizen is the only means to gain more voice in more policy decisions. An enlightened citizen is much more than an informed citizen. Critical thinking is the only practical means to develop a more enlightened citizen. If, however, we wait until our CT trained grade-schoolers become adults I suspect all will be lost. This is why I think a massive effort must be made to convince today’s adults that they must train themselves in CT.


    “Thomas R. Dye, Professor of Political Science at Florida State University, has published a series of books examining who and what institutions actually control and run America. to understand who is making the decisions that affect our lives, we also have to understand how societies structure themselves in general. Why the few always tend to share more power than the many and what this means in terms of both a society's evolution and our daily lives. they examined the other 11 institutions that exert just as powerful a shaping influence, although somewhat more subtle: The Industrial, Corporations, Utilities and Communications, Banking, Insurance Investment, Mass Media, Law, Education Foundation, Civic and Cultural Organizations, Government, and the Military.”

  9. #39
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    If, however, we wait until our CT trained grade-schoolers become adults I suspect all will be lost. This is why I think a massive effort must be made to convince today’s adults that they must train themselves in CT.
    The problem is that critical thinking is emotionally and socially painful.

    And we live in a society that is devoted to making us feel good. This is not bad in itself and in my opinion will lead to a society where critical thinking is more common.

    In particular, in a prosperous and democratic society the helping mode of child rearing is leading to more creative and empathic individuals who are able to think critically.

    In the meantime I think we need to preserve our democratic institutions and increase our prosperity, increase the size of the pie, and distribute the pie more equitably.

    In the short run most want consolation rather than critical thinking.

  10. #40
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    The American people are too naive to comprehend the problem and too frightened of reality to accept their responsibility.

    A democratic form of government is one wherein the citizens have some voice in some policy decisions. The greater the voice of the citizens the better the democracy. The greater the intellectual sophistication of those citizens the better the democracy.
    That is not something that all agree on. If you look at some of the literature from the Revolutionary era in particular, you will find that writers disagree about how far direct popular power should extend into government. There is a great deal of concern that people, as a group, are not politically rational, and they are subject to passing whims. So people having more say is not necessarily good. Further, people may not want to be burdened with that responsibility in the first place--some may appreciate having a representative that can go through the dull political motions for them.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

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