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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Are you sure they are new thoughts? Certainly we understand more and more about the intricate tapestry of our world all the time.

    But the fabric of thought is different than the product of that mental activity. The desire to understand, enlighten, to find truth, to solve problems.

    Those underlying motivations travel unchanged over hundreds and hundreds of years.
    That's like saying no new tools and things have ever been created because matter has existed for billions of years. The underlying motivations being the same does not mean the resulting thoughts are not new.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Are you sure they are new thoughts? Certainly we understand more and more about the intricate tapestry of our world all the time.

    But the fabric of thought is different than the product of that mental activity. The desire to understand, enlighten, to find truth, to solve problems.

    Those underlying motivations travel unchanged over hundreds and hundreds of years.
    Its interesting how the same thought can be visited over and over each one creating a new idea based on the "total understanding" + a single thought.

    Total Understanding + Same Thought = New Idea
    New Idea + Previous Understanding = Total Understanding
    Rinse and repeat
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #13
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Are you sure they are new thoughts? Certainly we understand more and more about the intricate tapestry of our world all the time.

    But the fabric of thought is different than the product of that mental activity. The desire to understand, enlighten, to find truth, to solve problems.

    Those underlying motivations travel unchanged over hundreds and hundreds of years.
    The desire to understand, enlighten, to find truth and solve problems is only very recent and stems from the Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th Centuries.

    Before that we had things like astrology and MBTI.

    But after the Enlightenment, rather than repeating the mantra of astrology over and over, we started to discover new thoughts in astronomy.

    And rather than repeating the same old, same old MBTI, we started to think new thoughts in psychometrics.

    However astrology and MBTI are comforting. It is comforting to repeat the same old thoughts over and over, like wearing an old cardigan.

    And there are so many who need comforting.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The desire to understand, enlighten, to find truth and solve problems is only very recent and stems from the Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th Centuries.

    Before that we had things like astrology and MBTI.

    But after the Enlightenment, rather than repeating the mantra of astrology over and over, we started to discover new thoughts in astronomy.

    And rather than repeating the same old, same old MBTI, we started to think new thoughts in psychometrics.

    However astrology and MBTI are comforting. It is comforting to repeat the same old thoughts over and over, like wearing an old cardigan.

    And there are so many who need comforting.
    Repeating the same thought can be painful. Its like a stuck record, no solution is found, no problems are solved. No advancements are made. I have been there done that and eventually you get tired of repeating the same thing over and over until you give up on a solution and find a way to sever that thought. Pretty much the opposite of what you speak of.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #15
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factotum View Post
    That's like saying no new tools and things have ever been created because matter has existed for billions of years. The underlying motivations being the same does not mean the resulting thoughts are not new.
    Perhaps I should have chosen the word "thought" with greater care so as not to obfuscate my message in the semantics of the word being picked apart. I am just interested in the core of thought. Not the product.

    I don't see anyone arguing that we experience new emotions all the time. We don't really think new thoughts either; just recycled ones, but they have the benefit of building on the concrete of physical discovery. Thus they look "new".

    So yes, the product of the process of thought is indeed new, to us at least.

    Perhaps the core of thought is emotion anyway ... the desire to create, to solve, to understand. So emotion > thought.

    Thus if we were truly advancing in the worlds of emotion, we would not see the same themes playing out over time as we do. Perhaps we just don't have the benefit of enough time to reflect over; perhaps true change here can only happen over millenia, rather than centuries.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Perhaps I should have chosen the word "thought" with greater care so as not to obfuscate my message in the semantics of the word being picked apart. I am just interested in the core of thought. Not the product.

    I don't see anyone arguing that we experience new emotions all the time. We don't really think new thoughts either; just recycled ones, but they have the benefit of building on the concrete of physical discovery. Thus they look "new".

    So yes, the product of the process of thought is indeed new, to us at least.

    Perhaps the core of thought is emotion anyway ... the desire to create, to solve, to understand. So emotion > thought.

    Thus if we were truly advancing in the worlds of emotion, we would not see the same themes playing out over time as we do. Perhaps we just don't have the benefit of enough time to reflect over; perhaps true change here can only happen over millenia, rather than centuries.
    You'd like that wouldnt you

    I think they both have a place as you can feel without thought and think without feeling. Its where the 2 overlap that we get confused whether the chicken or the egg came first.

    To me if something is driven from a detached nature thought>emotion. If it is driven from an attached nature emotion>thought. Just my 2 cents.

    edit: But a thought that is not driven by emotion I can withstand for very long periods of time without a solution and continue to recycle it over and over, thoughts that are tied to emotions are the ones that creates more problems.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #17
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Repeating the same thought can be painful. Its like a stuck record, no solution is found, no problems are solved. No advancements are made. I have been there done that and eventually you get tired of repeating the same thing over and over until you give up on a solution and find a way to sever that thought. Pretty much the opposite of what you speak of.
    I wonder if his inability to achieve any meaningful degree of personal resolution by doing this is why Victor keeps on with it?
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  8. #18
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    I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of religion the way I do.. With that being said, no one who thought this way influenced my thinkings. I derived the conclusion, my personal philosophy on it, on my own through my experiences and observances. It's my bit of pride, and I hold dear to it, even if there are others out there that spent about 15 minutes of reading someone else's thoughts to come to the same conclusion it took me 3 years to meditate on.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    I wonder if his inability to achieve any meaningful degree of personal resolution by doing this is why Victor keeps on with it?
    From understanding MBTI and digging deeper into functions if victor is an IJ they sit in Si or Ni and a path works itself out based on that. That is the only path they can see and have problems detouring from that path without switching Si or Ni. The way to change is to bring in more Si or a different Ni. But Ni and Si dom cant do that because all they see is their path based on what they know(the downfall of a dominant introvert). They need to sit in Te or Fe which is external functions. They need to learn new external concepts, find new external details to add in. Expand our dominant function through our auxilary function. If they sit in Ni or Si long enough they will always find a path based on what they know, it will build itself internally. It may have hiccups to get past, but its a path that will 90% of the time lead to the correct outcome. Not everyone can withstand the hiccups though when this path involves others. Its dependent on the other persons strengths and weaknesses.

    /thought for now
    Im out, its been fun

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