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  1. #41
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    A trance puts reason to sleep and awakens imagination.

    And belief is a form of trance.

    So belief can't be overturned by reason because reason is simply asleep.

    So to keep battering away at belief with reason is futile.

    Only a belief can defeat another belief.

  2. #42
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    A trance puts reason to sleep and awakens imagination.

    And belief is a form of trance.

    So belief can't be overturned by reason because reason is simply asleep.

    So to keep battering away at belief with reason is futile.

    Only a belief can defeat another belief.
    How does one go into a trance?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    How does one go into a trance?
    I can get my bunny to go into a trance. I just lay her gently on her back. And she will lay there, paws up, for a long time.

    It's a survival trait so that when they get eaten they don't have to experience it quite so fully.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I can get my bunny to go into a trance. I just lay her gently on her back. And she will lay there, paws up, for a long time.

    It's a survival trait so that when they get eaten they don't have to experience it quite so fully.
    Lolz! Clever. :]


    Quote Originally Posted by Thisica View Post
    Or that no one knows, and in this case, we should all say to ourselves honestly: we don't know!
    On the contrary, some of us know that we know by the evidence all around us (i.e., mankind, Mother Nature, science). Why play dumb? :redface:

  5. #45
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    I must admit that I feel kind of bad doing it.... But she looks so cute!

    I also sometimes chase her around the living room saying "caw!" just to give her a little thrill or two in her otherwise INFP world. (shes totally an INFP too)

  6. #46
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What if its the athiests who've been deluded and whose use of reasons to fit their purposes has been ill conceived?
    More to the point, does it even matter to you if they are wrong in this life?

    On the topic of God, Young Earth Creationists are just a hold over of prior American beliefs. After the American enlightenment period, there was a split between science and liberal Protestantism (which formerly was considered compatible with science).

    Modern Christian scientists support "theistic evolution". An example is the views of NIH director Francis Collins. He also accepts the practical importance of embryonic stem cell research. (if you disagree with stem cell research on moral grounds, then you also agree with the closing of all IVF clinics)

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    How does one go into a trance?
    A trance can be induced by any repetition. We go in and out of trances all during the day. However most trances are culturally induced and so are invisible to us. But as we learn to deliberately put ourselves in and out of a trance, we start to become aware of when we are moving in and out of trances during the day. For instance we find we enter a light trance when we ride in an elevator.

    There are many kinds of trances. But in all trances some cognitive faculties are turned off and some imaginative faculties are turned on. And the kind of trance depends on which faculties are turned off and which are turned on.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It
    So, it is the subconscious fear of death and the belief that we could possibly escape it that makes a person totally change his standards for what he considers reasonable.
    nice work.


    religion is interesting. the laws of physics as we know it bend with change in gravitation; we have no idea what happens to consciousness after life. i see no reason to believe non-existence is the inevitable conclusion, nor do i see much of a reason to sacrifice reasoning for security. i'll always know in the back of my head it's not really 100% certain.


  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    So no reason is needed; all you need to do is hit the people with their [willfully committed/known] sin and error (as forceful and vitriolically as needed), and if elect, they'll be convicted and respond (eventually, at least), and if "reprobate", it will just "harden" them as God "willed" (according to chapter 9, their other favorite passage).
    So you can teach that 1 + 1 equals one-in-a-bun, (if you can find the right proof-text for it), and horribly lose any argument on science and reason, yet still walk away smugly confident you "refuted" those "blinded fools".
    I personally hate this strain of evangelical thinking, it seems small minded and myopic in the extreme and more about the person feeling "right" than what is or isnt truth, it reeks of the strains of choosen elects which I despise as a variety of sectarianism and psychological superiority/inferiority loops.

    Its part of the reason why after hoping for a long, long time that reconciliation or ecumencism within fragmented Christianity could have a chance that I just gave up on the idea altogether. I used to think that it was a peculiar lingering legacy in my own society of historical sectarian divisions, the reformation and protestantism but most of that input to the North of Ireland is actually from the US now, things like the Alpha Course and other visiting preachers, I'm not saying that there's not a market for it and people want any excuse, a lot of the time that appears to be the case, but the US is a society I wouldnt believe there was as much of a reason for this sort of thing to have endured and persisted but it appears to have done.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    More to the point, does it even matter to you if they are wrong in this life?

    On the topic of God, Young Earth Creationists are just a hold over of prior American beliefs. After the American enlightenment period, there was a split between science and liberal Protestantism (which formerly was considered compatible with science).

    Modern Christian scientists support "theistic evolution". An example is the views of NIH director Francis Collins. He also accepts the practical importance of embryonic stem cell research. (if you disagree with stem cell research on moral grounds, then you also agree with the closing of all IVF clinics)
    I dont see a dichotomy between science or evolutionary theories and religion, the same way I dont see a dichotomy between, say geography and the performing arts, they're two different things. The important thing is to pursue truth and acknowledge that you dont have all the answers.

    I do believe that the whole creationists thing is a uniquely American but its spreading out from there, its a shame because I remember watching black and white movies, I think James Stewart was in one of them, about teachers getting called to court for teaching Darwin's theories in the class room and kind of watched them with a isnt that quaint and thank god that's a thing of the past point of view.

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