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  1. #1
    The King Liason's Avatar
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    Default The Argument Of Rain

    Alright. I'm Rain, let's hit this. I'm going to shoot out my opinion on a certain topic, and when I've exhausted it, I'll shoot out another. It's also perfectly fine to ask my opinion on another topic, and I'll respond, keeping in mind the topic of this subforum, I'm making this an ethical and logistical argument.

    In my opinion, if someone enters your home whilst not having permission to, you should be able to kill them. Regardless of their age, gender, ethnicity, religion, monetary or political status, or popularity[if they are famous or not]. I understand that the family could be throwing a surprise birthday party, but generally a member of the family is with the "surprised" member at the time. Someone could be coming home late, and accidents, though rare, do and have happened. Even so, it is common knowledge that certain aspects of societal doctrine must cater to the majority, as with many statistically supported facts.
    Argue/Agree/Acquiesce with/to me?
    The Symbol of the King*The Absolute Does Not Exist*Kingship Will Bring Me Freedom
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    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    1) Police with a search warrant?
    2) What constitutes 'permission'? Can it be revoked?
    3) What constitutes 'entering your home'?

  3. #3
    The King Liason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liason View Post
    Alright. I'm Rain, let's hit this. I'm going to shoot out my opinion on a certain topic, and when I've exhausted it, I'll shoot out another. It's also perfectly fine to ask my opinion on another topic, and I'll respond, keeping in mind the topic of this subforum, I'm making this an ethical and logistical argument.

    In my opinion, if someone enters your home whilst not having permission to, you should be able to kill them. Regardless of their age, gender, ethnicity, religion, monetary or political status, or popularity[if they are famous or not]. I understand that the family could be throwing a surprise birthday party, but generally a member of the family is with the "surprised" member at the time. Someone could be coming home late, and accidents, though rare, do and have happened. Even so, it is common knowledge that certain aspects of societal doctrine must cater to the majority, as with many statistically supported facts.
    Argue/Agree/Acquiesce with/to me?
    EDIT-additional clarification

    To clarify on permission, we are under the assumption that people in extreme situations seeing smoke from your home, you have not left/entered/had activity in a while are exceptions. The idea is to argue why my opinion is wrong or right on the punishment to trespassers of ill intent. Also, this is me building upon a simple idea in my brain, finding what I feel is right. My views may build, but won't change i e switch.
    The Symbol of the King*The Absolute Does Not Exist*Kingship Will Bring Me Freedom
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  4. #4
    The King Liason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    1) Police with a search warrant?
    2) What constitutes 'permission'? Can it be revoked?
    3) What constitutes 'entering your home'?
    1) That is lawful permission from the social contract assuming you live in a republic. Also, this is hypothetical, so the society could or could not have police. It's more so an ethical debate, without regard to specifications of surrounding factors that induce complications to the situation at hand. Not simplifying the situation, but not complicating it is key.

    2) It can if it was given by the landowner and revoked. Idealize that permission is written as a legality in such a situation.

    3) Entering your home would count as being within the abode, i e entering through door/window. Yard would be more flexible i e the less invasive nature of such an act and higher probability of lack of intent to trespass after and or before doing such.
    The Symbol of the King*The Absolute Does Not Exist*Kingship Will Bring Me Freedom
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  5. #5
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liason View Post
    1) That is lawful permission from the social contract assuming you live in a republic. Also, this is hypothetical, so the society could or could not have police. It's more so an ethical debate, without regard to specifications of surrounding factors that induce complications to the situation at hand. Not simplifying the situation, but not complicating it is key.
    Ok. In what other situations would the social contract (ie. someone who is not you) grant permission?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liason View Post
    2) It can if it was given by the landowner and revoked. Idealize that permission is written as a legality in such a situation.
    Could I invite you into my home, revoke this permission, and legally kill you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liason View Post
    3) Entering your home would count as being within the abode, i e entering through door/window. Yard would be more flexible i e the less invasive nature of such an act and higher probability of lack of intent to trespass after and or before doing such.
    What about by proxy? eg. poking a stick through your window, or driving a remote-controlled vehicle into your home.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    personally: i would invite everyone i didn't like into my home, kill them indiscriminately, and then tell the police they all barged in unannounced.
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

  7. #7
    The King Liason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    personally: i would invite everyone i didn't like into my home, kill them indiscriminately, and then tell the police they all barged in unannounced.
    Read replies to Blair

    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Ok. In what other situations would the social contract (ie. someone who is not you) grant permission?
    Government/legal situations. Basically, anything written by the government saying that their officials had legal right to enter your home under subpoenaed permission. In such a situation, the idea is that you are not a co-owner. The abode is under one name, but can be shared financially.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Could I invite you into my home, revoke this permission, and legally kill you?
    Only if said party refused to leave after you revoke permission, via destroying their written legal permission. In this idea, there would be two legal documents existing of written permission. A bit similar to the law where a woman can be topless[in some states], but cannot enter stores and such etc. Basically you must have documentation to enter a persons private abode. If the person granted permission's copy is destroyed, they must attain another, and if the person giving the permission :destroys/accidentily destroys: the copy then the permission is invalid likewise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    What about by proxy? eg. poking a stick through your window, or driving a remote-controlled vehicle into your home.
    In such an effect, who would poke a stick through someone's window? Anyways, no, such is not entering their home. We are speaking in terms of bodily entrance.
    The Symbol of the King*The Absolute Does Not Exist*Kingship Will Bring Me Freedom
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  8. #8
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liason View Post
    In my opinion, if someone enters your home whilst not having permission to, you should be able to kill them. Regardless of their age, gender, ethnicity, religion, monetary or political status, or popularity[if they are famous or not]. I understand that the family could be throwing a surprise birthday party, but generally a member of the family is with the "surprised" member at the time. Someone could be coming home late, and accidents, though rare, do and have happened. Even so, it is common knowledge that certain aspects of societal doctrine must cater to the majority, as with many statistically supported facts.
    Argue/Agree/Acquiesce with/to me?
    What if it was a baby that accidentally crawled in your house? I understand your opinion on it however it wouldnt always work. I would not be able to kill someone who trespassed my home if the person was someone who saved my life before. Because I would owe that person my life.
    There are a number of cases where I would say it wouldn't necessarily be alright.

  9. #9
    The King Liason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    What if it was a baby that accidentally crawled in your house?
    Hypothetically, it is a locked door society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    I understand your opinion on it however it wouldn'*t always work. I would not be able to kill someone who trespassed my home if the person was someone who saved my life before. Because I would owe that person my life.
    There are a number of cases where I would say it wouldn't necessarily be alright.
    You wouldn't /have/ to kill the person. There is no requirement to, but you have the legal right to. Not legal obligation.
    The Symbol of the King*The Absolute Does Not Exist*Kingship Will Bring Me Freedom
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  10. #10
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liason View Post
    Hypothetically, it is a locked door society. You wouldn't /have/ to kill the person. There is no requirement to, but you have the legal right to. Not legal obligation.
    Well you see, it's quite hard to figure this one out on what we have to right to do or not. Because you see, my values and my logical side are fighting in my mind right now on what should be the case. One side says no on certain aspects where the other side agrees with you whole opinion on the matter.

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