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  1. #1
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    Default Noble minds amidst life

    There seems to me, to be a dreadful dissonance between defensible metaphysical positions, the one's I should say, which are held by noble minds, and the psychological requirements inherently involved in the forming of some kind of sanity preserving world-view.

    There seem to be similar patterns of dissonance in other sectors of society which can be examined too. Almost no political thinker held in any great esteem endorses the prohibition by the state on victim-less crimes, i.e. drugs. Not for just argument sake, as I do know of some European psychiatrist who has published books on the positive effects of varied drug use in releasing cognitive potentialities, in the light of these sorts of assertions it seems especially wrong to deprive any citizen of the right to self-determination through what must be construed as a corruption of the law.

    Politics seems to ignore these good arguments which vindicate individual liberty, and not for entirely wrong reasons; generally society sees the objective value in being able to compel an addict to face treatment and bolster the deterrence for drug induced delinquency. But society is not supposed to have a preconceived formulation which our law-makers can push us into using criminal law, thats social engineering and rather authoritarian. And so our personal liberty has been sacrificed on the alter of societies immutable demand to be rendered servile and safe in the clutches of Big brother ensuring us that we are all captured and cared for beneath the system that promises to keep us safe, because we cant take responsibility for ourselves.

    Well that is kind of the point I wanted to get at when I started writing this at the very beginning, How much responsibility can we bear to take, it seems people have quite a low tolerance for it. Wow, I sort of started writing this thinking it would end as a sort of query, now I feel I'm onto something, perhaps the answer to almost everything is just, how much responsibility can you muster, it is a question that, although perhaps not too expounded on here, does transcend the abstract thought realm quite clearly in how it manages to break into the present moment, how tangibly one can relate intentionality and one's expression of the will in ways one recognizes.

    Well my original intention was to get back to what I was talking about more specifically in my opening paragraph;- Death denial, which is perhaps the fundament of culture, ennui - what happens when we are finally sick of culture, and then we have metaphysical constraints and concerns... Stuck in this sea, can we ever construct an island on which to plant ourselves so that we might flourish?
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

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    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Well first we'd have to realise it. Second we'd have to forcibly fix it. Unfortunately it is too much a burden for people and not to mention the strengths of tradition holding back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    Stuck in this sea, can we ever construct an island on which to plant ourselves so that we might flourish?
    Yes. Accept the fact that no one has a clear picture of what is going on. You can easily have better understanding of the way things are than a politician, because they are not paid to have a clear picture. They are there to hold certain views (if we are lucky, the views of their voters), so it is impossible for them to be holistic. More importantly, politics are seen as a "struggle" of opinions, not a collaboration. This means that the people who base their views on dichotomies are more likely to be motivated becoming politicians.

    So, forget about all that. The world is how it is and you have to live with that. You are right that it is a lot about your responsibility. How much are you willing to go against the flow? If you feel that there are no options for you to choose, I guess to be responsible means to make those options for yourself.

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    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    The discussion of politics served merely to act as an instantiation of the almost existential plight I describe in my first paragraph. The practical concerns of living, centrally psychology, root us in things that are very often discredited by our metaphysics. Death-denial leads all those with the intellectual integrity to withstand its vulgar answers to somehow put up with the psychologically unstable alternative. Is the noble-mind an absurdity in nature, because that is what it seems from some views...
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    The discussion of politics served merely to act as an instantiation of the almost existential plight I describe in my first paragraph.
    Well, I admit, I am having a hard time following your thoughts in the original post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    The practical concerns of living, centrally psychology, root us in things that are very often discredited by our metaphysics. Death-denial leads all those with the intellectual integrity to withstand its vulgar answers to somehow put up with the psychologically unstable alternative. Is the noble-mind an absurdity in nature, because that is what it seems from some views...
    So, to make it clear, you are asking whether or not there is a point of thinking outside the current cultural norms? If people who think there is some value in having values are not just freaks?

    What do you mean by "noble mind"?

  6. #6

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    In response to the OP:

    There are a lot of things touched upon in the first post that can be expounded on.

    Death Denial

    We will all die. At least that has been a truth about life so far. Perhaps we can achieve some measure of immortality through our legacy.

    Liberty vs. Nanny State (Especially with regards to drugs)

    The use of drugs is not always just an infliction of wounds on oneself. Sometimes drugs lead to violence or inaction when action is required. Addiction, in addition, is often not easily overcome by the addicted self. I do not like the idea of a Nanny State. However, I don't have a good enough answer to the concerns mentioned above.

    Responsibility

    You are right. Most of life comes down to how much responsibility one wants to take. This does not mean that it is optimal to take on as much responsibility as possible. Certainly, responsibility increases one's power. But with responsibility comes burdens. There is a balance to be maintained.

    Flourishing in Our Current Culture

    The arts and sciences have always flourished when leisure time is abundant. I think that is true also on an individual level. The less time you spend on mere survival, the more time you'll have to be creative. It would be best if one could be paid for what one does as leisure activity (assuming one could still enjoy it when it becomes a vocation).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    So, to make it clear, you are asking whether or not there is a point of thinking outside the current cultural norms?

    yes, I guess you could reduce it to that kind of term.

    If people who think there is some value in having values are not just freaks?

    People who live within cultural norms still have values, and still value having those values over another particular culture's normative system... your going to have to be more astute when dealing with this I think.
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

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    It seems like this might turn into an interesting conversation but I am not seeing what your problem exactly is. It might be because of my less than perfect English. What is a noble mind? Could you give me a practical example of the frustration you are talking about?

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    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    I would say the main constituents of what I consider the noble mind to comprise of would be:

    Belief based on rationality and not wish-thinking
    Belief in spite of discomfort and displeasure
    Conceptualization of a cogency divorced from hope (perhaps a particularized reformulation of the first component)

    Psychology makes us needy animals, but it seems a noble mind is doomed to hover and ignore the concerns it is simply incapable of adopting seriously, or at least without a good measure of self-scorn.
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    Belief based on rationality and not wish-thinking
    Belief in spite of discomfort and displeasure
    Conceptualization of a cogency divorced from hope (perhaps a particularized reformulation of the first component)
    I would like to think I have all of these characteristic, but still don't have any particular problem with life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zang View Post
    Psychology makes us needy animals, but it seems a noble mind is doomed to hover and ignore the concerns it is simply incapable of adopting seriously, or at least without a good measure of self-scorn.
    I can't think of any particular psychological need that I would not like to obey... well, there are some sick needs as result of frustration of another need, but that's another thing, right?

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