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View Poll Results: False hope or no hope?

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  • False hope

    3 33.33%
  • No Hope

    6 66.67%
  • I don't want to pick.

    0 0%
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  1. #51
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I try to deliver bad news to people gently, but I don't think it's cool to bullshit them. Spreading joy is one thing.. but lying to people or ignoring issues is not helpful. There's kind of a fine line there. I think it's possible to find the positive even while exploring the facts. But I don't appreciate those people who ignore the big glaring problems in their and/or someone's life, and starting enforcing good vibes and hope just for the sake of it. Not everyone needs that. They just might want a friend who recognizes the problems with them, sticks around, and does practical things to improve the situation. In the original post though, it's a kid.. which is really sad. You don't want to get too serious with kids either :\

  2. #52
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Utilitarian as in the greatest amount of personal happiness for the greatest number of people.
    Yes, the greatest good for the greatest number, usually attributed to the Utilitarian philosopher, Jeremy Bentham. And we have named a street just around the corner from me, "Bentham Street". And this is no accident, for Utilitarianism is the philosophy we practise here.

    Just click on -

    Jeremy Bentham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  3. #53
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    I was watching an old episode of The Mentalist while folding laundry and it was showing flashbacks to his childhood working at a carnival- his father wants to market a "healing crystal" to a dying girl to make some money. It's false hope, there's no way that it will cure her, but are a few days of peace of mind that might result from it a good thing?

    I'm just wondering... is false hope in something- be it a placebo, a beleif system or what- better than having no hope at all, or is it better to ignore things that aren't true?
    I'd say it depends on the situation and the person. Some people find peace in hope (hope by definition is sort of 'against enormous odds') and some people find peace in a no-bullshit truth. If the truth makes a person give up earlier than they have to, then it'd be more beneficial to believe in even a small percentage of chance, hope that the situation will change for the better, to keep trucking.

    About the girl, it depends on her religious/philosophical views. It's wrong to con a dying girl...but on the other hand, maybe she wants to die with a smile on her face, something beautiful about having hope until the very, very last moment until you literally can't hope anymore. Why die in angst, waiting for death must be terrible I'd think, counting down the hours. But then, there are people who needs certainty, who wants to be able to handle the brutal truth and adjust themselves accordingly, something about pride, mental strength, people who know they are going to die and find it within themselves to be able to give a thumbs up and say peace out with their last breath.

    Now that's strictly about death.

    About belief systems - DON'T LIE TO ME! Don't try to convince me that there is another form of existence when you can't give me substantial proof. I rather deal with reality than listen to wishy washy lies. This isn't anti-religious, this is philosophical.

    About placebos - ehm, medical ones? If it's about death, my response is above. If it means you won't die but will keep waiting for your uhm arm to become normal again, then that is cruel to keep someone waiting like that. It's better to learn as soon as you can to deal with the facts.

    I am different about death because death is the ultimate finality, you won't wake up again to be disappointed, you won't wait too long either. I draw a line here. If false hope intrudes with living and your ability to handle your situation with no chance of improvement/change, then it is cruel, if it does not and it eases your final few hours, then it's dependable on the person.

    Halfway through, I lost my train of thoughts, warning. Personally, I want the no-bullshit truth in all three categories and I want to be given the chance to deal/adjust to it by my own strengths and weaknesses, by my own unique combination of the two. Don't you lie to me. Don't make it easier for me. I'd like to see what I am made of.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I was watching an old episode of The Mentalist while folding laundry and it was showing flashbacks to his childhood working at a carnival- his father wants to market a "healing crystal" to a dying girl to make some money. It's false hope, there's no way that it will cure her, but are a few days of peace of mind that might result from it a good thing?

    I'm just wondering... is false hope in something- be it a placebo, a beleif system or what- better than having no hope at all, or is it better to ignore things that aren't true?
    False hope, when given with the intention of helping is a good thing. It can provide tremendous psychological benefits. Giving false hope to make money is a bad thing, unfortunately this is what most psychics do.
    (removed)

  5. #55
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah- I was thinking about a time when I was the only person in my family who kept themselves together with false hope when everyone else became sad...

    A few years ago my aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and was given a few weeks at best to live- she had just been walking around, cooking and joking with me the day before! I refused to beleive that that was it... everyone else accepted it. This meant awkward hospital visits in which my aunt and I would discuss GW Bush being the most idiotic idiot ever, the wonders of tea and other silly prattle while everyone else discussed estate planning and funeral plans. Christmas was especially awkward, because in my blissfully delusional state, I happily dug into Christmas dinner and joked around with my aunt while everyone else barely kept from crying. I wasn't exactly the most welcome family member there

    She died right before New Years and everyone else was expecting it- I wasn't and ended up getting wasted and punching a hole in the wall and sleeping with an enemy that evening, but I still feel that in a way, my false hope that she was going to survive ended up making things easier for her to deal with...
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    yeah- I was thinking about a time when I was the only person in my family who kept themselves together with false hope when everyone else became sad...

    A few years ago my aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and was given a few weeks at best to live- she had just been walking around, cooking and joking with me the day before! I refused to beleive that that was it... everyone else accepted it. This meant awkward hospital visits in which my aunt and I would discuss GW Bush being the most idiotic idiot ever, the wonders of tea and other silly prattle while everyone else discussed estate planning and funeral plans. Christmas was especially awkward, because in my blissfully delusional state, I happily dug into Christmas dinner and joked around with my aunt while everyone else barely kept from crying. I wasn't exactly the most welcome family member there

    She died right before New Years and everyone else was expecting it- I wasn't and ended up getting wasted and punching a hole in the wall and sleeping with an enemy that evening, but I still feel that in a way, my false hope that she was going to survive ended up making things easier for her to deal with...
    I think it helped. Sorry to rain on anyone here who is big in the "getting all the ducks in a line" estate planning, but that isnt for the person, its to keep from having a headache afterwards. To be blunt, after the person passes they are not gonna think "Oh crap, did I do XYZ". I am sure she appreciated it very much.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #57
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah... I just kind of wanted a good example of false hope being a good thing in a broader sense there

    I think she enjoyed a chance to be snarky until the end!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #58
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    yeah- I was thinking about a time when I was the only person in my family who kept themselves together with false hope when everyone else became sad...

    A few years ago my aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and was given a few weeks at best to live- she had just been walking around, cooking and joking with me the day before! I refused to beleive that that was it... everyone else accepted it. This meant awkward hospital visits in which my aunt and I would discuss GW Bush being the most idiotic idiot ever, the wonders of tea and other silly prattle while everyone else discussed estate planning and funeral plans. Christmas was especially awkward, because in my blissfully delusional state, I happily dug into Christmas dinner and joked around with my aunt while everyone else barely kept from crying. I wasn't exactly the most welcome family member there

    She died right before New Years and everyone else was expecting it- I wasn't and ended up getting wasted and punching a hole in the wall and sleeping with an enemy that evening, but I still feel that in a way, my false hope that she was going to survive ended up making things easier for her to deal with...
    You were thinking about her. The others were thinking about themselves.
    She knew. You made it easy for her to die.

  9. #59
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    it is better to have no hope than to have false hope, because it does not trap you and distract you from the real hope

  10. #60
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    false hope is just a form of wish thinking. Is the point of life to be reactionary and merely cope as best we can with thought scenarios in which we locate ourselves as victims in some predetermined narrative? Or could we bear to muster the moral courage to cling to whatever semblance of liberty our intellectual vigor might afford for us. Does no-one else's daemon protest at the sacrifice of the authentic life?
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

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