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View Poll Results: False hope or no hope?

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  • False hope

    3 33.33%
  • No Hope

    6 66.67%
  • I don't want to pick.

    0 0%
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  1. #21
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    Not a big fan of false hope, but it's better than no hope lol

  2. #22
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I have no idea which neural structure is responsible for religion, but that it is genetically determined can be deduced from the fact that all cultures, no matter how isolated, have some sort of deity and spiritual belief (and with rather similar structures). Richard Dawkins and Matthew Alper have both presented the hypothesis, although Dawkins myopically attributes religion to a misfiring neural mechanism, rather than its correct functioning.
    I really hate correcting people about these simple things.

    a) If religion is genetically determined, then are Atheism, Marxism, Nihilism, etc., ideaologies, preprogrammed into the human mind? I suppose that one could be born knowing the entire KJV by heart, or even, Das Kapital.

    b) YouTube - Dawkins: Did Religion Have an Evolutionary Value?

    c) Dawkins seems to attribute it to human naivety rather than human predisposition. In fact, he's quite opposed to the idea. He states that religion was created by and used as a tool for the actual genetic and, therefore, evolutionary tendencies that are ingrained into mankind.

    Religion is not a product of the human genome, in the sense that religion lies within it; a need for unification, order, stupidity and naivety are though.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  3. #23
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    Infancy.
    I'm assuming you're referring to children too young to be capable of taking a position on the issue. I wouldn't say the lack of capacity to believe implies disbelief. You could equally well atribute a number of other philosophical outlooks to infancy - nihilism, for instance, on the grounds that they do not actively believe in anything in particular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I have no idea which neural structure is responsible for religion, but that it is genetically determined can be deduced from the fact that all cultures, no matter how isolated, have some sort of deity and spiritual belief (and with rather similar structures). Richard Dawkins and Matthew Alper have both presented the hypothesis, although Dawkins myopically attributes religion to a misfiring neural mechanism, rather than its correct functioning.
    That's not deductive, but inductive reasoning, and not particularly strong inductive reasoning either. It says nothing about the wiring of the brain, which it does not even examine, but makes the sweeping assumption that a range of similar social behaviours must stem from a specific neurological component which can be explained in terms of genetic heredity. It's highly speculative, establishes no causal connection, and proves absolutely nothing in real terms.

    If Dawkins is talking about the function of the temporal lobe, and that stimulation and disorders of it can evoke religious-type subjective experiences, he is at least standing on solid ground, because the phenomenon is well attested. And it's not often you'll find me agreeing with Dawkins.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  4. #24
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    I'm assuming you're referring to children too young to be capable of taking a position on the issue. I wouldn't say the lack of capacity to believe implies disbelief. You could equally well atribute a number of other philosophical outlooks to infancy - nihilism, for instance, on the grounds that they do not actively believe in anything in particular.
    Athiesm, as defined by wonkipoodia:

    Atheism is commonly described as the position that there are no deities.[1][...] A broader meaning is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3]
    You are under the assumption that in order for one to be an Atheist, he must know of a god and must decidedly reject that entity.

    Incorrect.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  5. #25
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainne View Post
    Not a big fan of false hope, but it's better than no hope lol
    my view as well... I've got to have some light at the end of the tunnel or what's the point?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #26

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    To be truthful fale hope, once its known to be false, is no hope and any hope needs to be tested to ensure its not falsehood.

    The neurology of belief and religion interests me, the positions of Dawkins have shaken my beliefs up a bit, frankly terrified me lately. There was a time that I could have been certain and taken consolation that the emergence of similar belief systems in a variety of seperate and independent cultural contexts invalidated his memetics/brain virus thesis but I'm not sure, developmental psychology suggests that the symbolic projects could be the consequence of universal conscious and unconscious attachment needs.

    There is also the possibility that religions emerged from the auditory and other hallucinations consequent from the dominance of brain functions in another epoch that no longer dominate but occasionally, anomalously, reassert themselves manifesting as UFO sightings, spiritualism, mediumship, hauntings or possessions.

    Guys you've pretty much no idea of the whole fear and trembling this loss of certainty has caused me, no one knows either and there's hardly anyone to discuss it with. People fit neatly into the self-assured and angry athiest camps so neatly.

  7. #27
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    It depends on the consequences of any particular false hope; telling a little girl that crystals or prayer will cure her cancer will cause her disappointment as reality slowly demonstrates otherwise, while telling her that she will go to heaven and wait for her parents with her deceased grandma will alleviate her suffering.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 05-13-2010 at 05:02 PM. Reason: use of language seemed pretensious in hindsight.

  8. #28
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    It is?

    In which neuroanatomical substructure does the religious principle reside again?
    Whichever one causes us to think that the inevitable deaths of ourselves and our loved ones is a buzzkill, in conjunction with our imaginations. Aleksei's post might not be well-supported as a declarative statement, but it makes great intuitive sense (as a generality, of course) to say that spiritual wants seem to be hardwired into the human mind.

  9. #29
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    Athiesm, as defined by wonkipoodia:

    You are under the assumption that in order for one to be an Atheist, he must know of a god and must decidedly reject that entity.

    Quote:
    Atheism is commonly described as the position that there are no deities.[1][...] A broader meaning is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3]

    Incorrect.
    Mr Wonky Poodle, please don't prove your wonkerishness by posting questionable definitions of irrelevant abstract nouns in order to shore up an already weak ideological point. The child may be in a state of non-belief, but this does not make the child an atheist by any reasonable and generally accepted current definition. If you're having trouble with this concept, try finding a proper dictionary, and look up the word "atheist", which whether you like it or not defines a person who has made an active choice not to believe.

    Further, it's purposeless attributing a positive significance to simple incapacity. You might equally well say that all flies are atheists, or all planets are atheists, as they do not have (because they are not capable of posessing) religious faith, just as a baby is not, at least so far as we know.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  10. #30
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I believe in false hope.
    Also that children are the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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