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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default Hate/forgiveness/universal love?

    To piggy back off of AA's thread, can I get some help understanding what you mean when you say the below terms? What do these terms feel like for you internally?

    Hate-what does it feel like? How long do you maintain it? Why? It is anger fueled or does it just mean establishing a distance?


    Forgiveness-When and how do you forgive? What does it mean to forgive? What do you do if you do not forgive another? What do you do with that remaining negative emotion internally?


    Love towards mankind in general-What does this feel like?


    Love towards close ones-What does this feel like and how does it differ from the above?


    (I dont think my words mean the same thing-thus my confusion...)

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    is an ambi-turner BRMC117's Avatar
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    Hate-what does it feel like? How long do you maintain it? Why? It is anger fueled or does it just mean establishing a distance?

    hate is a really strong word, I think that hate is only "real" when its the only emotion you feel. It will take over everything about you, and change you.


    Forgiveness-When and how do you forgive? What does it mean to forgive? What do you do if you do not forgive another? What do you do with that remaining negative emotion internally?

    I always forgive, no since in staying angry when it really and truly does not matter.


    Love towards mankind in general-What does this feel like?

    I love my fellow humans, we have so much potential. I would die for a stranger in a heart beat.


    Love towards close ones-What does this feel like and how does it differ from the above?

    I love the ones I am close to because I know who they are and I know what they have done in thier lives. I love "who: they are as opposed to who they can be I guess.
    "I put the fires out."
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  3. #3
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Types of love:
    Eros – a passionate physical and emotional love based on aesthetic enjoyment; stereotype of romantic love
    Ludus – a love that is played as a game or sport; conquest
    Storge – an affectionate love that slowly develops from friendship, based on similarity
    Pragma – love that is driven by the head, not the heart; undemonstrative
    Mania – highly volatile love; obsession; fueled by low self-esteem
    Agape – selfless altruistic love; spiritual; motherly love

    Good lord, no wonder I am confused...

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    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Types of love:
    Eros – a passionate physical and emotional love based on aesthetic enjoyment; stereotype of romantic love
    Ludus – a love that is played as a game or sport; conquest
    Storge – an affectionate love that slowly develops from friendship, based on similarity
    Pragma – love that is driven by the head, not the heart; undemonstrative
    Mania – highly volatile love; obsession; fueled by low self-esteem
    Agape – selfless altruistic love; spiritual; motherly love

    Good lord, no wonder I am confused...

    OOOh, I love these. Can you find more? This must be derived from the Greeks who had a lot of words for love.
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    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    To piggy back off of AA's thread, can I get some help understanding what you mean when you say the below terms? What do these terms feel like for you internally?

    Hate-what does it feel like? How long do you maintain it? Why? It is anger fueled or does it just mean establishing a distance?
    Hate is a clenching of the heart. It is also possible for "love" to involve a clenching of the heart, so in one view, it can seem like love and hate are the same, merely positively or negatively directed.

    However, both are based upon desire, by which I do not mean libido, but in particular that one wants something. When the wanting is strong, and directed toward a particular person, it can seem like love if you want the person to be present in your life in whatever regard, and it will be hatred if you want the person out of your life or wish ill upon the other.

    In the end, it's merely a reflection of what reality is and what you want from reality.

    These are normal feelings that often feel very deep, but they lack spiritual depth.


    Forgiveness-When and how do you forgive? What does it mean to forgive? What do you do if you do not forgive another? What do you do with that remaining negative emotion internally?
    Forgiveness is the unclenching of the heart.

    It is, however, an attitude, not a feeling. It is the choice to unclench your own heart. It unclenches both the hatred and the loving style I mention above. In the former, it is more like classical forgiveness, though I would imagine a lot of people "forgive" in the not-so-open way, feeling like they have a responsibility to forgive, but don't actually let go of feeling the hurt in one's heart. What I'm talking about is just completely letting go of the hurt, all of it, so that it simply doesn't hurt any more. The difficult part is that the hurt feels like it comes from the wrongdoer, but the hurt one feels is always within oneself, and is under one's own emotional control.

    Where does the remaining negative emotion go? It is identified and remembered, but not relived. It becomes part of oneself, but not in a hateful, resentful way.

    The unclenching of the heart also applies to the "love" I described in the reply to the first question. In this sense, it is not forgiveness, but acceptance. What happens is that we tend to have a picture of what the one we love should be like, a set of expectations. Those expectations are hurts waiting to happen. The object of your love can do something perfectly reasonable and innocent, yet hurt you because your expectations impose a violation. It becomes something of an art to determine whether a hurt is truly another's wrongdoing (they did something wrong that most people would objectively recognize as being hurtful), or is really just one's own unreasonable expectations. Either way, dropping the expectations, letting go of the feeling that things have to be a particular way, is what unclenches the heart and allows real love to flourish.


    Love towards mankind in general-What does this feel like?
    Pretentious posturing, for the most part. I distrust most claims of love for mankind, as it feels as if one is trying to make oneself bigger by claiming to have such a love. If one has a loving attitude, then one loves people, not "mankind" in the abstract.

    Love towards close ones-What does this feel like and how does it differ from the above?
    Love towards close ones ... this is where I feel most complete. With most people, my natural expression of love is stifled. It is too "forward", too invasive. In order to express the love I feel, there must also be a connection that conveys the love. To have my love expressed, and to have its expression fully, completely positively received ... I'm afraid that words cannot describe it.

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    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    How about hebrew words for love?

    There are 11 Hebrew words that have been rendered "love" in the RSV, a number of which are related (i.e., belong to a common word set), some are very common, and some are rather rare.

    For instance, רעיה (ra‘yāh) occurs only in the Song of Songs with reference to a "female companion, girlfriend, beloved" (HALOT).

    Less rare but rendered similarly in some verses in the Song of Songs is דוד (dōd) beloved, lover; in other verses in the Song of Songs, as well as in a couple of verses in Ezekiel and in one verse in Proverbs, the word means "love (lust)" (HALOT).

    One of the most rare words rendered love in the Hebrew Bible is חבב (khōbēb), which occurs only in Deuteronomy 33:3. wherein the text speaks of God loving the people (HALOT).

    Also rare (occurring only in Jeremiah and in Ezekiel) is the verb עגב (plural participle = ‘ōgebīm) : to desire sensuously (HALOT). A cognate of עגב (occurring only in Ezekiel) is עגבה (‘agābāh) : passion (HALOT).

    Another rare word is ידיד (yādīd) —1. beloved; —2. adjective lovely; a related word is the hapax legomenon ידידות (yedīdōt) = love (song) Psalm 45:1. (HALOT), rendered "wedding" (song) in some versions.

    The Qal inflection of the verb רחם occurs once in the Hebrew Bible meaning to love (object YHWH) Psalm 18:2[1 in English versions] (HALOT). There are quite a number of occurrences of the same verb in the Piel inflection meaning to greet (meet) someone with love, take pity on someone (HALOT). There are five occurrences in Hosea and one in Proverbs in which the Pual inflection of the verb means to find mercy (HALOT).

    The usual word set for "love" in the Hebrew Bible is the verb אהב (’āhēb) in its various inflections (Qal, Piel, Niphal, Pealal, and Hiphil) and its cognate nouns ’ahab, ’ōhab, and ’ahebāh (אהבה). The semantic range of אהב includes "to like" as well as "to love" (HALOT).

    Then there is the most variously rendered word in the Hebrew Bible (there are nearly as many different renderings as there are English versions): חסד (khesed). Here is the semantic range of the word as presented in HALOT:
    —1. joint obligation between relatives, friends, host and guest, master and servant; closeness, solidarity, loyalty; [...] lasting loyalty, faithfulness [...] protection favour of the king [...]
    —2. חסד in God's relationship with the people or an individual faithfulness, goodness, graciousness
    —3. plural [...] the individual actions resulting from solidarity: a) (of people) godly action, achievements [...] proofs of mercy

    Note that the word "love" does not appear in the semantic range presented by HALOT; however, the words "love", "loving", and "loving-kindness" are quite prominent in English renderings of חסד (khesed):
    All the ways of the LORD are loving [חסד (khesed)] and faithful" Psalm 25:10. (NIV).
    Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love [חסד (khesed)] Psalm 107:8. (NIV).
    The refrain throughout Psalm 136,. His love [חסד (khesed)] endures forever (NIV).

    This post is becoming too long, so I'll let the above suffice for now — except to say that חסד (khesed) is the epitome of "commitment-love", to use your term. Let me know if you have follow-up questions.
    Source: Hebrew words for love? - TheologyWeb Campus

    HALOT = Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament
    RSV = Revised Standard Version of the Bible
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The object of your love can do something perfectly reasonable and innocent, yet hurt you because your expectations impose a violation. It becomes something of an art to determine whether a hurt is truly another's wrongdoing (they did something wrong that most people would objectively recognize as being hurtful), or is really just one's own unreasonable expectations. Either way, dropping the expectations, letting go of the feeling that things have to be a particular way, is what unclenches the heart and allows real love to flourish.
    How lovely.
    However, i guess i would say there are certain kinds of things that are completely and irrevocably unforgivable. Take, for instance, some dude making a young woman's very private life into something very public. As in, telling almost everybody he ever knew the tiniest details of the affair they had last night, which of course then ends up with almost everyone referring to her in the most derogatory terms anyone could utter. I'm sure you know what I mean.

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    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    ^lol. you make it sound like uumlau did this. ^

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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcvcdc View Post
    How lovely.
    However, i guess i would say there are certain kinds of things that are completely and irrevocably unforgivable. Take, for instance, some dude making a young woman's very private life into something very public. As in, telling almost everybody he ever knew the tiniest details of the affair they had last night, which of course then ends up with almost everyone referring to her in the most derogatory terms anyone could utter. I'm sure you know what I mean.
    You are intertwining different senses of forgiveness. In the case you specify, "forgiveness" would be nearly identical to the concept of forgiving a debt, which is all about societal arrangements and expectations. That kind of forgiveness is only tangentially related to how/why one might forgive others with one's heart.

    In the societal context, the fellow should be branded a cad and suffer the consequences thereof. What one feels about him in one's own heart is one's own business. To never forgive someone is a burden that one carries within oneself; it is not a burden to the one who is unforgiven. To forgive is to relieve oneself of that burden.

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    'scuse me but i'm a sensor and i was talkin' about irl. understand?

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