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Thread: Living with Joy

  1. #1
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Default Living with Joy

    Key to personal power and spiritual transformation by Sanaya Roman.

    *My thoughts are a little messy here*

    This is the book i am currently reading and although very informative, i am struggling with aspects of it.

    When i first started reading it, i admit i rolled my eyes as the book is through the eyes of a spiritual guide called Orin. If Orin does exist on a different plane of existence, well he/she is a very insightful and full of wisdom.

    This book talks about instead of finding validation from others, find it within yourself .. Which makes sense, but it is nice to hear a thank you from another. Is it wrong to get or want to hear a thank you??

    It talks about subpersonalities and when in doubt or fearful, to speak to that part of yourself and find alignment with your higher self. Those doubts/fears though are there for a reason, be it good or bad.

    It also speaks of love .. And this is where i get confused. I am aware i am a contradiction to myself, my thoughts change, one minute i can be objective, the next subjective and maybe, possibly this is where my conflict lies. I thought because i have the potential to be many different things, this was of benefit to me. I like helping people and yes, sometimes i do things because i feel obligated but if i put my needs first, i don't want to be seen as selfish although at times, i suppose i am. I know i can not expect anyone to give as much as i do or possibly can but that doesn't mean they are not giving as much as they can at this particular moment in time.

    I suppose what i am saying is that if the book is correct and you are supposed to give out this love unconditionally (Hmmmm) yet only find validation for it in yourself, then what happens when people are just taking advantage of you? Let them do it and feel good that you are just giving? Maybe in time they will not be so selfish and give something back, be it time, love or something else?

    What am i missing here .. I am looking for other perspectives.

    Now i have made a note of something to hold onto to and that is instead of looking at something in the sense of "Will this last?", instead look at the situation as a "How will i deepen this moment?"

    Apparently if i focus on the present, i'll send it to the future thus releasing the past.

    I am aware that maybe my purpose on life is to deal and find peace with my conflict i find in myself .. I am aware i attract people who are not possibly at their healthiest, but i try and look beyond that, people are essentially good and can bring a great deal of happiness (and sadness) into my life, but just because they are not "healthy", maybe i am meant to meet them so i can learn something from them and them from me.

    OH, i don't know ... Any ideas on this subject????

    Thanks for getting this far, lol
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  2. #2
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    I am aware that maybe my purpose on life is to deal and find peace with my conflict i find in myself ..
    you've got it there. it's normal to feel the push and pull, but try to find a good place for yourself where you don't constantly feel like you are contradicting yourself too much. (like you say/ think some thing and do another, or you fluctuate between positivity/ negativity...)

    try to find a good balance between reality and your ideals. (i realize this could be just INFP talk and not helpful to you, but i try...)

    give to yourself, give to others... that doesn't mean you have to live in conflict. choose your battles.

    also, i think you've pretty much summed it up in your signature:

    "nothing is permanent, except change."

    but you're here. keep your feet on the ground, but your legs moving.

    it's going to be ok.
    Enneagram 5w4.

  3. #3

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    Alexander Lowen's wrote about living with Joy, think he has a book by the same title and he takes a more philosophical or psychological approach than a spiritualist one, Eric Fromm wrote about the topic of love in his bio of Freud, he suggested that the idea that we have finite love is a result of norms in the economy rather than our true nature, Fromm felt strongly enough about that that he went on to edit a book of just about every human nature theory there is.

    Its a logical fallacy called the logical fallacy to validate arguments that way but it gave rise to a lot of interesting reading in the process.

    I reckon its wise not to allow others to take advantage of you where you have a choice, on the other hand experiences like this can be cause for reflection and learning rather than regret, reframing it like that can prevent it being something that reduces your joy in life.

  4. #4
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    When we dance for joy, generally we stop thinking about joy and become joyful.

    Alternatively we can think about joy and be moved to dance.

    So we can feel something first, then do it. Or we can do something first and let the feelings follow.

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    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    It talks about subpersonalities and when in doubt or fearful, to speak to that part of yourself and find alignment with your higher self. Those doubts/fears though are there for a reason, be it good or bad.
    I find this way of thinking about it (subpersonalities, etc.) kind of complicated...

    I also sometimes get in a confused mode about what I "should" be doing, what the "best" thing to do is, etc. This normally happens when what I actually want to do is conflicting with thoughts about what I "should" be doing.

    I agree that feelings are there for a reason. They indicate important information. What I find often works out for the best is if in such cases I take a moment to register what I'm feeling and what I want and then make sure that whatever I decide respects and takes care of those feelings without doing injustice to the other person, even if this means they aren't pleased about it.
    the shoheen ho of the wind of the west and the lulla lo of the soft sea billow - Alfred Graves

  6. #6
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    Saslou... interesting topic!

    One of the most difficult parts of wisdom (at least in my own life, I've found), is knowing when to focus on myself. I'm still pretty terrible at it, but getting somewhat better. Just like in the airline safety video when they instruct you to put the oxygen mask on yourself before assisting somebody else... it is important in some ways to replenish yourself, to say "no this is too much," to let yourself rest in the ways that you alone know you need to rest.

    I will often read two seemingly opposing ideas and they both make sense to me and seem like true wisdom, and it can be confusing, because they seem to be mutually exclusive. But then, as I think about it, joy... or at least this kind of balance, it seems, is found when you learn to walk in the tension between the two seemingly opposing ideas.

    Something I recently wrote in an email to a friend:
    I am a tiny speck, meaningless in this wide, wide universe, but I am also a miracle, a cosmic being of ultimate beauty and grace. Not only can we love as though everything matters, we realize that we actually have very little effect on the path of the world. We find the truth in the tension that exists between chaos and order, between hope and despair, between true and not true, between profound and mundane.

    I don't know if I can convey it very well at all. Anyway though, in terms of replenishing yourself while giving everything to others, I think the idea is that joy cannot be found when you focus simply on yourself. That is not the point of human existence... we were designed/have evolved as social creatures. At the same time, at least in my experience, if I give and give to others without replenishing, I eventually find myself getting really worn out. I am working on establishing emotional boundaries for myself AND on letting myself be more open to other people at the same time. It's almost like they are two sides of the same coin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    When we dance for joy, generally we stop thinking about joy and become joyful.

    Alternatively we can think about joy and be moved to dance.

    So we can feel something first, then do it. Or we can do something first and let the feelings follow.
    Victor, I really like this. I saw this documentary about yoga one time and they traveled all over the world visiting all different yogis/gurus/whatever it's called. One type of yoga in particular was based around laughter. They would gather together and the guy would just look at each member and point and say "ha ha ha" with a twinkle in his eye and everyone else would just say "ha ha ha" and then pretty soon everyone on screen was actually laughing at each other, making eye contact, grabbing onto somebody's shoulder for a little bit of strength... and then I found MYSELF laughing... and then I looked around the audience in the darkened theatre and one by one everyone around me began to laugh. It was really powerful...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

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    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Thank you for all your replies .. Much appreciated.

    Update .. I got bored of that thinking so changed it
    Currently reading The Secret by Rhonda Byrne .. Interesting perspective and i have remained calm, stopped over thinking so able to find my blessings even during challenging moments. Life is good.

    Conclusion: Stop over-thinking. That wasn't so hard, lol
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Thank you for all your replies .. Much appreciated.

    Update .. I got bored of that thinking so changed it
    Currently reading The Secret by Rhonda Byrne .. Interesting perspective and i have remained calm, stopped over thinking so able to find my blessings even during challenging moments. Life is good.

    Conclusion: Stop over-thinking. That wasn't so hard, lol
    Yeah, over-thinking things can really mess with you. Glad you've found a better direction!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

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    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    I suppose what i am saying is that if the book is correct and you are supposed to give out this love unconditionally (Hmmmm) yet only find validation for it in yourself, then what happens when people are just taking advantage of you? Let them do it and feel good that you are just giving? Maybe in time they will not be so selfish and give something back, be it time, love or something else?

    What am i missing here .. I am looking for other perspectives.
    Give out love unconditionally? Whoa. That's a dangerous philosophy. Love is conditional, to me, I am a stingy one.

    I suppose the limit is within yourself. People who seek external validation does too much but people who seek validation from themselves knows when to stop. Establish your own conditions. I don't know...what unconditional love is... maybe you can unconditionally love someone, but that doesn't mean you need to actively give and give? Is the act of giving and the act of love the same? There is good intentions and then, there is letting other people learn how to take care of themselves/etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Give out love unconditionally? Whoa. That's a dangerous philosophy. Love is conditional, to me, I am a stingy one.

    I suppose the limit is within yourself. People who seek external validation does too much but people who seek validation from themselves knows when to stop. Establish your own conditions. I don't know...what unconditional love is... maybe you can unconditionally love someone, but that doesn't mean you need to actively give and give? Is the act of giving and the act of love the same? There is good intentions and then, there is letting other people learn how to take care of themselves/etc.
    BOLD=Brilliant

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