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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    LOL Word.

    This is for dads, but honestly it sounds more like what asian moms would say. High Expectations Asian Father
    Heh true that.. Funny link

  2. #12
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I have no issue with it, regardles of being male. Like it or not, someone has to be in charge, and the members of a mammalian family, be it a wolf pack or nuclear human family, are actually happy knowing who is in charge.
    I've never understood this "captain of the ship" argument. And the analogy of the wolf pack doesn't really work since they have an alpha male and female; the only ones allowed to breed.

    I don't agree that:
    Much of patriarchy also has its roots in Christianity.
    I think most religion simply reinforces, rather than creates, patriarchy. It exists principally because males are obsessed with hierarchy and status and females, by and large, are not. If anything patriarchy created Christianity, rather than the other way around.

    That reducing inequalities across society is desirable in terms of improving life for everyone in that society is no longer in any serious doubt.
    "Social status hierarchies are literally lethal"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #13
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Halla, I think that male chauvinism, mysogyny and patriarchy are frequently confused with paternalism or more simple things like male breadwinners, I'm not sure its possible to use patriarchy in much more than a prejorative sense these days though.
    Good point, makes sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Some of the ways in which the word matriarchy is used would have surprised the first feminists to focus in on those concepts, its basically just the substitution of women for men, behaving like me, sometimes they are more "one of the guys" than the actual guys. I'm not even talking about being butch or anything just that they compete and compell in ways that the first theorists identified exclusively with maleness and would have described as being "male identified". This is part of the reason why some women deserted feminism in droves as unrepresentative of them.
    Give anyone who is not mature, secure, and rational even the smallest bit of authority, and a monster is created. I have seen this happen too many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'd suggest that patriarchy has had a bad impact on men too, some men wind kind of ultra manned and behave like real assholes as a result.
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That's why I suggested that Herland was more a depiction of Matriarchy, as the first theorists of the concept understood it, than the historical accounts of societies temporarily lacking men.
    Will read up on that, never heard of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I've never understood this "captain of the ship" argument.
    Some people are perfectly happy if someone other than themselves acts in a capacity that alleviates them of having full responsibility for the well being of the rest of the members of their organization. This is the case for employee/boss relationships, as well as familial relations of varying kinds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    And the analogy of the wolf pack doesn't really work since they have an alpha male and female; the only ones allowed to breed.
    Nice try splitting pubic hairs. In many functional modern family households, Daddy and Mommy are both in charge, and no one else in their house is allowed to breed. So, the analogy REALLY does work, and you are wrong.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Why is this beneficial in a societal context? Consider the following analogy, when my wife takes her minivan to the dealership for service, they try to bullshit her and sell her alot of unecessary services/items. When I go to the dealership, despite knowing jack shit about cars, they talk nicely to me, don't screw around with trying to B.S. me, and schedule my car for service so it can be picked up when I need it. See the difference? Our society is a chauvinist society, so in many cases, women are by default at a disadvantage in dealing with men in many social contexts.

    Yep. Now, I know enough in situations such as this to say - is is going to be beneficial to me to buck the system here? I will but only if the benefit outweighs the work involved. Generally speaking, if I have to question it, it does not. I create less work and less strife in our life as a whole by my husband dealing with things in areas I KNOW will cause an issue if I handled it alone. I am at a disadvantage simply by walking in the door. Should I fight this or should I just send ENFJ man? Exactly.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    This sounds like simply taking the path of least resistance. Every time a woman (or man) goes into a situation and demonstrates genuine behavior that deviates from gender expectations,, there is an opportunity for learning, and the path is easier for the next one. Prejudice and assumptions are only bolstered by personal ignorance. Women, blacks, disabled, gays, etc. did not make the progress they have made to date by taking the easy way out for expediency.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Some people are perfectly happy if someone other than themselves acts in a capacity that alleviates them of having full responsibility for the well being of the rest of the members of their organization. This is the case for employee/boss relationships, as well as familial relations of varying kinds.

    Nice try splitting pubic hairs. In many functional modern family households, Daddy and Mommy are both in charge, and no one else in their house is allowed to breed. So, the analogy REALLY does work, and you are wrong.
    Some people, I'd say pretty damn near everybody, at least in some context, I know very few people who're in charge of themselves all the time, some will submit at home but not in the workplace etc. For a lot of people its too much like hard work.

    In most good households that should hold true, I know a couple where its not true though, neurotic or vacant parents are on the rise.

  7. #17
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Is the american society really patriarchal? (geniunely asking - I don't know) Because around here men do earn more money, but most household decisions (even big ones) are left to women, for reasons that aren't really that clear. It doesn't seem to be changing now, either.
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  8. #18
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Is the american society really patriarchal? (geniunely asking - I don't know) Because around here men do earn more money, but most household decisions (even big ones) are left to women, for reasons that aren't really that clear. It doesn't seem to be changing now, either.


    I am curious.
    Do you think that in your country women are more J than men in general ?


    (since this seems to be the case in mine)

  9. #19
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I am curious.
    Do you think that in your country women are more J than men in general ?


    (since this seems to be the case in mine)
    They're probably stereotypied/culturally pused to be such, yes, especially when it comes to material order (putting things in their "proper" place etc.)
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #20
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Some people are perfectly happy if someone other than themselves acts in a capacity that alleviates them of having full responsibility for the well being of the rest of the members of their organization. This is the case for employee/boss relationships, as well as familial relations of varying kinds.
    What does that have to do with Patriarchy vs Matriarchy?
    Nice try splitting pubic hairs. In many functional modern family households, Daddy and Mommy are both in charge, and no one else in their house is allowed to breed. So, the analogy REALLY does work, and you are wrong.
    There's no need to be vulgar and obnoxious.
    See my earlier question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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