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View Poll Results: Love is a universal truth?

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25. You may not vote on this poll
  • ST---yes

    1 4.00%
  • ST---no

    1 4.00%
  • SF---yes

    2 8.00%
  • SF---no

    0 0%
  • NT---yes

    3 12.00%
  • NT---no

    10 40.00%
  • NF---yes

    2 8.00%
  • NF---no

    6 24.00%
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Results 81 to 90 of 106

  1. #81
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    I [finally] added the poll as requested...

    This job thing, it just gets in the way, it's awful!
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  2. #82
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Is it just me or this question doesn't make any sense ?
    Not just you. It doesn¬īt make sense to me either.

    And there is no chance for me to vote in the Poll.
    Last edited by Donna Cecilia; 05-08-2010 at 03:50 PM.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
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  3. #83
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Honestly I dont know if I am left with much of a choice-I either forgive and let the negativity go-or I act upon the situation to find resolution. To carry hatred inside of me? It will well up and turn into an inferno of Ne amplification, contaminating everything I do with hurt.
    i haven't really followed your exchange with PeaceBaby, so forgive me, if i don't make that much sense here... but i'll try to respond.

    do you mean that you are hurt and first try to forgive without trying to figure out your feelings/ the other person's feelings and what really happened first?

    what do you mean by "act upon the situation"? when does this happen?

    Isnt rationalization/analysis of emotions one of the tasks of Fi? You feel something very strongly, so you seek into the mesh that is Fi rules/values/axioms to try and figure out what to do about the strong emotions you feel-to process them?

    (^^I am uncertain if this is correct actually??? instead i typically quell emotions with pure logic. Even more strange-I think I value (using Fi) logic (which is the result of Te). So my logical answer is logical-and I feel very strongly about it-due to logic being so highly valued as an Fi value. I actually and somewhat offended (in an Fi sense) when logic is ignored. This is really weird and I dont quite understand it yet. I am kinda odd.)
    yeah, it is... i don't quite follow what you're saying in the second paragraph, though? i think also that my Fi values are the result of using T logic, driven by F desire to learn about values...

    This was kind of what I was poking at in Z's thread-as an extrovert, I feel driven to act upon the things I "value" to seek resolution. If those Fi values are extremely intricate and well defined, I will be endless acting upon them using tert Te. So instead it makes me think enfps may be designed to function of less well defined Fi rules-thus we can seem like little kids at at times but we use Te to help guide us on practical applications of rules and learn to reign in Ne as well.

    I would assume as an INFP, you guys use Ne to perceive the situation and feelings differently or maybe Si to apply catagories of isolation? Thus the black/white dualism mentioned above? But please forgive if this is totally wrong as I have no idea, just tossing ideas out there.
    yeah, good points... the dualism i mentioned is just a value idea based on my studies. i think science (as much as i am skilled to use T) supports this view...
    Enneagram 5w4.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    How very intruiging.

    Well, I think I am going to refrain from posting anymore of my thoughts about love, etc.. This thread is getting overrun by F's and I feel like a jerk who goes about snatching lolipops out of babies mouths.

    W'an law've.
    Uh.

    No. Please stay. Precisely because you take the lolipops away.

    But that might be a bias on my part, i'm more oriented towards philosophy than towards spirituality [its a mystery how they both have a common section.] For example, I think I understood less than 5% of what Synapse said... it sounded grandiose but to me it was completely incoherent and made leap after leap of logic. Again, might be me, and of course im not belittling either Synapse or people who got some deep meaning out of his post, its just that for me, you might as well be posting in braille or in the poetry section [if there is one].

    There's a distinct lack of skepticism. Although to some, its a good thing.

  5. #85
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xellotath View Post
    Uh.

    No. Please stay. Precisely because you take the lolipops away.
    Well, too much sugar is bad for you.

    But that might be a bias on my part, i'm more oriented towards philosophy than towards spirituality [its a mystery how they both have a common section.]
    Agreed. I usually think of philosophy as the antithesis to spirituality, honestly.

    For example, I think I understood less than 5% of what Synapse said... it sounded grandiose but to me it was completely incoherent and made leap after leap of logic. Again, might be me, and of course im not belittling either Synapse or people who got some deep meaning out of his post, its just that for me, you might as well be posting in braille or in the poetry section [if there is one].
    Yes, I stopped reading his post after the first paragraph...

    There's a distinct lack of skepticism. Although to some, its a good thing.
    Well, my mind is apparently, a giant machination of untamed cynicism. It makes me feel like a downer and downers are never fun. Bah. They will get over it.

    ------

    Also, I'm having some trouble distinguishing between romantic/fantastical opinions about love and the other, spiritualized opinion. They are both very similar.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  6. #86
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    i haven't really followed your exchange with PeaceBaby, so forgive me, if i don't make that much sense here... but i'll try to respond.

    do you mean that you are hurt and first try to forgive without trying to figure out your feelings/ the other person's feelings and what really happened first?
    Actually yes. I will get offended, say nothing, assume responsibility and then forgive rather than respond as the response will typically be externalized. 90% of the time I think this is okay as the offense was unintended, was me being hypersensitive, was some odd quirk of mine they happened to stumble over, or can be dismissed as logically being okay, even if it bothered me.

    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    what do you mean by "act upon the situation"? when does this happen?
    By "act" I mean the typical enfp thing:



    We seem to go through life searching for a cause to fight for. Often this is accompanied by a sense of rightousness and a sense of strength. I'd guess it is tert Te being used to harness Fi indignation over something. That's why I say we "externalize" Fi judgments.

    On a much quicker timescale this can be a response ranging from a very gentle "oh, hey, not sure if you realized but that thing you said may have bugged somebody but I know you didnt realize it" to a rather loud bitchslap letting them know they crossed a value to a total emo spew.

  7. #87
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Actually yes. I will get offended, say nothing, assume responsibility and then forgive rather than respond as the response will typically be externalized. 90% of the time I think this is okay as the offense was unintended, was me being hypersensitive, was some odd quirk of mine they happened to stumble over, or can be dismissed as logically being okay, even if it bothered me.
    makes sense... little things don't matter...

    We seem to go through life searching for a cause to fight for. Often this is accompanied by a sense of rightousness and a sense of strength. I'd guess it is tert Te being used to harness Fi indignation over something. That's why I say we "externalize" Fi judgments.

    On a much quicker timescale this can be a response ranging from a very gentle "oh, hey, not sure if you realized but that thing you said may have bugged somebody but I know you didnt realize it" to a rather loud bitchslap letting them know they crossed a value to a total emo spew.
    i support causes, too. usually i do it in the quiet way, though. i do some research on the causes... it has been important for me personally to develop my value system. i suppose that's what i was trying to say. i don't expect others to share it and i usually don't even like to talk about it in depth... i just try to live by it. it's "wide enough" and "right enough" now for me to feel pretty comfortable with it. things can change though... but mostly it's just little things like feelings that come and go and make me do things i regret... i don't mind people questioning my value system, though.
    Enneagram 5w4.

  8. #88
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    I don't see how love could be a universal truth. Or even a truth at all.

    Should it be the center of all that we try to be?

    What does that mean?

    Should you love thy neighbor?

    If so, (love being compassion), I think one should aim for it if only because it is unnatural when it would be of the most aid.

  9. #89
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Love, Hate and Dancing

    Love and hate are two sides of the same coin. It is quite impossible to accept one and reject the other. But this is just what we do. We say God is love. And so we try and try to love and avoid hate.

    But this just blocks our flow of feeling. When we can flow, we let love and hate flow within us, without blocking either one.

    Love, we might say, is one foot and hate the other. And we need both feet to to walk, and we need both feet to dance.

  10. #90
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Thanks, Halla, I appreciate it!

    So I pulled out a book I bought a few months ago, but never read, called The Six Archetypes of Love. The author is a historian, so I've enjoyed reading his summarization of love in an historical context. I will paraphrase:

    ......the ancient Greeks had more than one word for love; they differentiated between love of friends, love of home, greed, and erotic love. A little later in history we see the romans, like the Greeks, differentiating between erotic love and mere sexual greed, yet their plays, and especially their comedies, seem to prefer to ridicule the lover. A man in love was a man who was no longer reasonable and therefore no longer truly a man. Virtue, a concept invented by the Romans, is a word derived from vir, meaning a man. Manliness was the same thing as Virtue to them, and had everything to do with getting ahead. It didn't have much to do with a tender appreciation for a sexual partner.

    The Greeks and Romans used myths to tell stories about love and lust. In these myths, sexual promptings were felt to be destructive. They turned humans into animals or plants. Even the gods were turned into animals by lust. But the Greeks were interested in depicting love in all its forms, which suggests it was a topic of continuing fascination and importance for them and that they had a sophisticated awareness of the issue.

    In early medieval European society the idea of sexual love was nothing if not confused. Love was often depicted as a disaster that threatened the all-important loyalties to the local lord and his clan. From Beowulf to King Arthur's legends to Tristan and Iseult, the plots all carry the same major components about love, that love leads to disaster; and that the demands of loyalty and loyalty's relentless partner--revenge--destroy love.

    Love is always seen as a static concept. There is no attempt to show that love can grow or change; it can meet challenges ('for richer, for poorer...'), there is almost no exploration of the way love can deepen and develop, or fail to grow and so wither and die. One is either in love or not.

    What this signals to us is that in bygone eras people were fully aware of the power of sexual love and the need to idealize the loved one, yet they had very little idea as to what to do with this urge, nor how to align it with religion. Religion insisted that only the love of God mattered....

    Shakespeare in Romeo and Juliet is pointing us to a far more complex discussion of love than just sexual attraction and its challenges....The play is much richer if we stop focusing on what we expect to see--a romantic love story--and observe its larger resonances as an exploration of many different kinds of love, loyalty and attachment. Despite this, society in those times had a rather grim and pragmatic approach to love; love was not to derail wedding alliances if it could be avoided. Love was nice, but money ensured that no one would starve.

    In the Eighteenth and Nineteenth centuries we can detect a move to redress this imbalance of love being a negative influence by and large, by authors such as Jane Austen, who explored themes of fulfilled love matches, based on patience and sensibility.
    Which brings us to present day. So up until a few hundred years ago (if we assume an evolutionary process of the role love played in our history, a chronological time line of growth), love was not held in high regard. Yet now it is almost a religion as reflected in current media and popular culture, and is a major thrust of most modern religions. What happened that made such an ideology so all-consuming so fast? If modern human has been around for 200,000 years, and up until a few hundred years ago (at most), love wasn't given very high regard, how can it all have changed so quickly and gone from being considered so malevolent to being so benevolent, at least as I perceive it in our modern culture.

    Or is this just the other side of the pendulum swing? Malevolent>Benevolent, and then we'll eventually settle somewhere in the middle. ?
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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