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View Poll Results: Love is a universal truth?

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  • ST---yes

    1 4.00%
  • ST---no

    1 4.00%
  • SF---yes

    2 8.00%
  • SF---no

    0 0%
  • NT---yes

    3 12.00%
  • NT---no

    10 40.00%
  • NF---yes

    2 8.00%
  • NF---no

    6 24.00%
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  1. #31
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Love is a bonding mechanism. It's a collection of irrational feelings that incline one to behave in ways that maintains a relationship to someone. This might manifest positively or negatively, since that could mean doing something like taking care of a person to keep them around, or attempting to possess them by force (as examples among many).

    Since it seems to be in every culture in the world, and it is indeed a detectable biological phenomenon, I'm guessing it was evolved. Most of the time it doesn't last too long though. The most reasonable guess is that it would fascilitate serial monogamy.

    Is it a universal truth? I don't even know what that means. Whatever it could mean I'm almost certainly guessing it's not. I also don't care. While love does compel people to do some crazy crap sometimes, I generally think it's nice due to its impact and more of it would be better. So, from a pragmatic perspective, it's worth believing in.

    Althought I have some specifics about how I think love should work. I do not believe in unconditional love. I do not believe in discriminatory love. And so on.

    I don't know if I've ever seen another thread title on this forum that screamed "HIPPIE!" as much as this one.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #32
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Is love a universal truth?

    Is it just me or this question doesn't make any sense ?

  3. #33
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Should it be the center of all that we are, or all that we try to be?
    Love is a fundamental element of life that defines our very being. This is a very complicated concept to define, so cheers to you for extrapolating the question out as you have.

    ASSUMPTION:
    Each person's definition of love is unique according to thier life experiences and genetic programming.

    In short, all people are somewhere on the continuum of:

    "Not a Loving Person<------->Extremely Loving Person"

    They types of love all of us can experience are more generalized (e.g. romantic, platonic, familial, etc.); the real variation comes in each person's (a) definition of each type of love they have, and (b) their implementation of love overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I have adapted my whole ideology about love. It used to be my mantra, so to speak, but now I think of it in an entirely new light.........
    This I'd like to hear some day...

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    How do you think of love, in terms of where it comes from,
    I believe as humans, we have love that is:

    (A) spontaneously borne as a result of positive experiences (babies love their puppy dog because they are soft and nice and sweet, etc.) that occur throughout our lives, and also

    (B) That love that is taught to us via being the recipient of another person's implementation of love (In other words, when someone treats us lovingly, and it affects us, and we appreciate it, and understand their motivation for doing so, we are thus empowered to wield that type of love later in our lives if we choose to).

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    and what its purpose is,
    The purpose of love is to serve as a vehicle for us to express our feelings for another entity, whether a person, place, or thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    unconditional versus conditional love.
    To me, unconditional love is implicit in (healthy) parent/child relationships, and relations among siblings.

    Unconditional love in romantic/platonic relationships is a bit more difficult to conceptualize, because when a friend/partner does something hurtful, we are able to forgive them at some point, but we remember the pain, and the net effect of the experience (hurt, forgiveness, reconciliation, etc.) is a change in our overall perceptions of the person. Yes, we love them no matter what, but does that mean we will blindly allow negative behaviors to transpire on an on-going basis? No, hardly. At some point everyone wises up, and in some cases, it is necessary to love someone "unconditionally" but to never be in their proximity again. So, maybe unconditional love is not the right term for what I am trying to define here...hmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Don't forget both sides of love when you respond.
    Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "both sides of love?"

    Do you mean giving/receiving it, or something else?

    I can better reply to this section once I better know the context of what you are looking for...

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Please don't launch into definitions of romantic love, like, "Love feels like being overtaken in all your senses." Other threads have already been devoted to that.
    I promise I didn't try to do any of that.



    CONCLUSION:
    I am a very loving person, but I do not traverse the landscape of my life blindly loving everything. As one matures, it is necessary to learn disgression in how we implement our concept of love. What is appropriate, what is not, when things should be able to feel a certain way, why we should feel certain ways, when there is a need to have a sense of caution in giving/receiving love, etc.

    We get better at loving, and at being loved through experience. That is why I feel badly for being that did not have an amount of love/nurture in their formative years that resulted in them having a healthy definition of love, and some good examples of how to potentially implement it later on. If a person doesn't have this base of knowledge, I feel it truly impacts how one will go about pursuing interpersonal relationships. Once someone is closed off and avoidant, it is that much harder for them to experience positive, loving experiences.

    Finally, I think one very important concept that everyone should understand about love is this:

    "It is impossible to love someone who does not love themselves.

    If a person does not love themselves, then they are by definition unlovable.

    They do not have the capacity to experience an emotion that they feel they are unworthy of receiving."


    Once I understood the above, it made a whole lot more sense to me that "you can't change people, people will only change when they are ready to, and at a time of their choosing."

    REFLECTIONS:
    Love is a precious resource. Unlike money, when you successfully express love your supply of it does not diminish, it actually grows, and the total amount of love in the world grows too. However, time is an extremely valuable resource too, and choosing to use one's time and other resources in the pursuit of expressing love to people that don't appreciate it, is a waste of one's overall life energy.

    The point of love is to support positive, healthy, and happy experiences in life, so when people tell me how much they are hurting because of a lot of crazy dysfunctional shit going on in their lives, my first piece of advice is for them to make sure their definitions and concepts of love are appropriately and adequately defined. For if they are not, then it is very easy for a person to needlessly go through many cycles of various kinds of abuse, because unfortunately, to them, what they are experiencing is "love."
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  4. #34
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    For your sake, you better be joking.
    I kitties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Is it just me or this question doesn't make any sense ?
    I funny INTJs who are learning about Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Love is a fundamental element of life that defines our very being.
    I ESTPs with cuddly Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I think people attribute Godlike powers to love, and perceive it as a universal truth, when it in fact, isn't.
    For me, it appears one of my Fi values is universal love for all creatures. This isnt romantic love, more the jesus/buddha variety. Everything deserves compassion, love and forgiveness, even if it comes in a tough love package. It appears to have a realistic flavor, but is universal with respect to who it applies to. Thus this "love" is the same regardless of if it is my child or a child in india.

    (Overlaying that are the "loves" such as romantic love, love of my children, love for coworkers and teamates and other deeper biologically programmed modules of attachment)

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    If YOU don't believe in universal truth, then, yes, the question, for you, would become irrelevant. Are you saying you don't believe Universal truths exist? How about the concepts of space and time? How about the concept of gravitational pull? How about any other physical or mathematical truth? If you do believe in certain truths that exist beyond our world, beyond us, is love one of them?
    The Te part of my brain says we must function in the logical world as we understand it. Thus I can only look to biology and chemicals as being the roots of love of all flavors described above. These biological gooey messes are built from building blocks that depend on universal laws, but are an evolved system to enhance survival.

    WAIT-an interesting thought though...Fe mirrors Fe. You can induce Fe in other Fe users. Fi mirrors Fi. I can induce Fi in other Fi users. In doing so we are using complex chemical soup to generate a communicative signal. The signal however generates emotions in another.

    So if my love is mirrored by another Fi user, who subseqeuntly induces another Fi user to feel love-it isnt just MINE anymore. It is now something we all share-a universal emotion, a mode of communication. The medium of communication is humanity-but since it does not reside just in one person-but rather can be shared among a conglomerate via mutual mirroring-would that make it a universal truth? (Same sort thing for Fe of course)

  5. #35
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    If everyone looked at life like that, even a blade of grass has a right to exist and to do what it is in its nature to do. Then I think we would be really well off, certainly wouldnt be a need for war or violence.
    If everything followed what was in it's nature to do, then naturally, there would be conflict.

    It may be in my nature to build things, and it might be in a tree's nature to grow. But I'm gonna chop that down and build something out of it. And it very well may be an act of love when I use it to build something useful, or beautiful, or necessary.

    It might be in a mentally disturbed person's nature to kill - and it's in my nature to stop them. Or in a less extreme example, one may like to walk and the other like to run and with limited resources you can only accommodate so much.

    The only way there can be universal harmony is for everything to die. At that point, there would be no conflict. But barring that, conflict is part of the system. Conflict is part of existence. It's the price you pay.

    Love is an important, powerful force, but "all we need is love" or variants thereof are overtly simplistic worldviews that are just as dangerous - or perhaps more dangerous, than violent ideologies. At least with violent ideologies you can see it coming.

    Person's who refuse to accept that conflict is part of nature in favor of the warmer outlooks on life aren't immune to conflict. In fact, not if, but when conflict arises, they are frequently the least prepared for it, and most prone to posing a dangerous threat to those around them, because they don't know how to handle the situation - their thinking doesn't prepare them for that reality. And with the stress of the new situation, rash decisions are made and people get hurt.



    And so - it's an act of love to prepare for conflict. And to prepare for conflict, you may have to change your nature. And to change your nature is a struggle - a conflict. But the struggle to refine your impulses is less than the struggle to clean up mess after mess after mess in human history that could have been avoided with some simple preparation.

    But even then, viewpoint will pit itself against viewpoint, and there will be violence. It will continue this way for some time.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I kitties.
    And happy puppies. It's a universal truth. It's twue! It's twue! Cwazy wabbit.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    So to tie this divergent post into responding to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Should it be the center of all that we are, or all that we try to be?
    That's entirely dependent on your definition of love.

    Cop out.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #38
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Don't forget the gerbils...

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  9. #39
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Don't forget the gerbils...

  10. #40
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    for me, this is the biggest question philosophically.

    if you believe love is a universal truth, then what is it and why?

    it was interesting, the point made about whether love exists without God, or without people loving...

    but there are different ways to view God, if one believes in God. what if God lives in the love we have for each other/ life... only? what if God is not a separate entity at all?

    i am answering my own question... why? because love feels good. lol... and we know what it is, it's the feeling.

    my limited brain is about to pop, so i'll echo ajblaises wise words: put some weight to it, and put the rest to science.
    Enneagram 5w4.

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