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View Poll Results: Love is a universal truth?

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  • ST---yes

    1 4.00%
  • ST---no

    1 4.00%
  • SF---yes

    2 8.00%
  • SF---no

    0 0%
  • NT---yes

    3 12.00%
  • NT---no

    10 40.00%
  • NF---yes

    2 8.00%
  • NF---no

    6 24.00%
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  1. #91
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity wants to ask does love come from the heart or the mind?

    If its universal or if it isn't, where does love come from? How can you tell its love? Do we need a heart to love? Do we need a mind to love? Do eyes express love? Does the body express love? Does touch express love? Does our spirit express love?

  2. #92
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    You raise an interesting point with the love/hate thing. Are we more likely to hate if we love less?

    In considering love as a biological, chemical process that has aided in our evolution through time, I asked my son what he thinks about love. He said he thinks love is getting stronger in us because we are not as barbaric a society as we used to be; that in all the ways we measure love, it used to not measure up like it does now. I'm not sure about that, but maybe he's right. We seem to go out of our way more to protect our children for a longer period of time of their growth. We seem to hold more dear the sanctity of relationships, no matter the paradigm we believe in. We seem to understand the concept that healthy self love exists and try to understand it. We join together in love when we have a crisis, but that does dissipate after a while.

    I have to wonder if some of us that love too much or don't love enough are just along different time continuum in that evolution of love. Perhaps we are developing more affinity for love as a human race; perhaps that is slowly being selected for over time. Those that hate, are killed, those that love procreate; to use a very simplified example. Those that don't fit in, are ostracized. Those that do, are embraced.

    If only we could plug our tails into our computer monitor and unite all our good wills together, Avatar style, how awesome would that mind-meld love be?
    Neat response. Good question, can't really answer that, I suppose we shut down the processes that are meant to be loving. Maybe there is a scale that depends on individual experience to trust those thoughts and emotions that experience love in its base form with others.

  3. #93
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Neat response. Good question, can't really answer that, I suppose we shut down the processes that are meant to be loving. Maybe there is a scale that depends on individual experience to trust those thoughts and emotions that experience love in its base form with others.
    I would suggest that stress factors in early life play a role in how this works. If you are in a very high stress place, you cannot trust emotional ties to be reciprocal-thus you do not develop them.

  4. #94
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I would suggest that stress factors in early life play a role in how this works. If you are in a very high stress place, you cannot trust emotional ties to be reciprocal-thus you do not develop them.
    Makes sense, this applies to me somewhat. Trying to determine what the scale is then between the terminology out there. Whether love exists in a positive form, which it does. Though experiencing the negative form does create a sense of cynicism for the future that I am trying to replace with a better sense of reality. Its quite amazing how much of our attitudes about love and acceptance are learned from an early age and then reinterpreted through the looking glass of society.

  5. #95
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    Love can't be a truth. That simply doesn't make sense, because love isn't a sentence, like "the grass is green" or "1 and 1 is 2". It is a thing, things can't be truthfull or not. Love is in fact very simple. It just means that you strongly prefer something or someone. When you say "I love cookies", it means that you'd rather eat cookies than most other things. When you say "I love my wife", it means you'd rather be with them and/or do things with them than with other people. Love is just strong preference.

    But people seem to want to make love more complicated, just for the sake of making it complicated. They add symbolic elements to it and they want to tell what kinds of love are love and what kinds aren't, just to feel better than others. For example: being set up with a date by one of your friends, dating with them for a long time, arranging when to kiss first and when to make love for the first time, getting married when other people want you to and having kids when others want you to is called love, because it's what the people who tell us what love is call that love. Meanwhile, the couple that meets each other for the first time in the elevator, starts having sex right away, after that decides to stay together and in the end suddenly grow old together, doesn't love each other. Why? Because others said so. They never dated before they had sex, so they can't love each other. Somehow, I'd still rather be in the second relationships than in the first one I described. But that's not love. Love is planning-planning-planning-dating-dating-dating-marrying-getting babies-being like everyone expects you to-divorce-die.

    Love is bounded to rules. Not just to the rules I just described. Another example: mothers are expected to love their children the most of anything in the world and love them all equally. But that's not how things work in real life. I know plenty of mothers who love one child more than the other. I also know mothers who don't love their children at all and even hated them from the day they were born. But there are still people who stick to that all mothers love their children more than anything in the world and that they love them all equally. Because that's how it REALLY is. They think they all know it better. But it's all just relative.

    That's why I don't think love is a truth and why love is relative rather than universal.
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  6. #96
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Love and hate are two sides of the same coin. It is quite impossible to accept one and reject the other. But this is just what we do. We say God is love. And so we try and try to love and avoid hate.

    But this just blocks our flow of feeling. When we can flow, we let love and hate flow within us, without blocking either one.

    Love, we might say, is one foot and hate the other. And we need both feet to to walk, and we need both feet to dance.
    Victor i do not understand. What does hate feel like you for? When I say hate I mean almost a walling off of this person from my soft, open space. I cast them out. At first I might feel animosity, but very quickly I have to let that go or I feel like it taints my soul. I just feel nothing for them. I may call it hate but it is more the absence of goodwill? absence of an underlying sense of caring that I feel towards most people....Do you maintain a sense of hate long term?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Makes sense, this applies to me somewhat. Trying to determine what the scale is then between the terminology out there. Whether love exists in a positive form, which it does. Though experiencing the negative form does create a sense of cynicism for the future that I am trying to replace with a better sense of reality. Its quite amazing how much of our attitudes about love and acceptance are learned from an early age and then reinterpreted through the looking glass of society.
    My experience has been one of blocking others out with logic. I care deeply, but on a very visceral level. I am wary of emotional bonds as a result-meaning it can actually be hard to open myself emotionally.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    My experience has been one of blocking others out with logic. I care deeply, but on a very visceral level. I am wary of emotional bonds as a result-meaning it can actually be hard to open myself emotionally.
    Yeah I don't know. I feel so far removed from the thoughts and emotions needed I wonder whether I'll be be able to open up easily either. Much the same, I care about people but from a distance. Like with my real life friends, I keep them at a distance without really wanting to know them well, too much effort.

    Really guarded myself from these ideas, years of practice from dealing with an intj family who lack a healthy understanding of love. Mature intj can, any personality can, except their ability to is lost. I'm just trying to rediscover the warmth. Many roads to travel as they say.

  8. #98
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Kat View Post
    Love can't be a truth. That simply doesn't make sense, because love isn't a sentence, like "the grass is green" or "1 and 1 is 2". It is a thing, things can't be truthfull or not. Love is in fact very simple. It just means that you strongly prefer something or someone. When you say "I love cookies", it means that you'd rather eat cookies than most other things. When you say "I love my wife", it means you'd rather be with them and/or do things with them than with other people. Love is just strong preference.


    Love is bounded to rules. Not just to the rules I just described. Another example: mothers are expected to love their children the most of anything in the world and love them all equally. But that's not how things work in real life. I know plenty of mothers who love one child more than the other. I also know mothers who don't love their children at all and even hated them from the day they were born. But there are still people who stick to that all mothers love their children more than anything in the world and that they love them all equally. Because that's how it REALLY is. They think they all know it better. But it's all just relative.

    That's why I don't think love is a truth and why love is relative rather than universal.
    I really like your post. I like thinking in terms of love as a 'preference' instead of as an absolute. I also agree with you that we all try to make love pretty, but I think it is really just as ugly for some. I am not sure what makes it pretty versus ugly, but I don't think it's just ego development getting botched, I think it's also other survival mechanisms that get pulled into play. Think of Sophie's Choice (movie where mother must choose which child dies) for one example. But the voluntary application of love versus non love is really more interesting to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Love and hate are two sides of the same coin. It is quite impossible to accept one and reject the other. But this is just what we do. We say God is love. And so we try and try to love and avoid hate.

    But this just blocks our flow of feeling. When we can flow, we let love and hate flow within us, without blocking either one.

    Love, we might say, is one foot and hate the other. And we need both feet to to walk, and we need both feet to dance.
    I've always read that love and hate were the same emotion, and that apathy was the opposite emotion. Of course, that's spewed from modern day propaganda about love, so who knows?

    Apathy: Etymology: Greek apatheia, from apathńďs without feeling.... I can have apathy about what my child becomes--what career path he chooses--but that doesn't mean I don't love for him to work or to be something meaningful. I can have apathy about my friends' life paths but that doesn't mean that I don't care about them in general. We seem to associate apathy with anti-love, and I don't think that's a good idea. Apathy can even be argued to be more loving, because lack of feeling toward something/someone means you totally stay out of their business, leaving them full freedom to be themselves or follow their own mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I would suggest that stress factors in early life play a role in how this works. If you are in a very high stress place, you cannot trust emotional ties to be reciprocal-thus you do not develop them.
    I can't say that beyond my husband and children that my close ties are reciprocal (and I'm one of lucky ones). I am an Fe aux who has spent 20 years trying to make it so. I think that is a mindset that is socialized into us in our culture of love; that reciprocated love will be our due if we just love fully and openly; that extends out of the Universal Love is a Truth mentality replete in popular religions and literature. The only way it makes sense that love is not reciprocated is either if you do what Halla suggested and cull your love recipients carefully, or if you realize that love is something else entirely; a coping mechanism, a stratagem for biological success and survival, perhaps the icing on the top of a few relationships that come and go; but not a whole lot more.

    Coming to terms with that would help the loveless a lot more than telling them to buy into the rampant love myths in existence in our world today. And if a more altruistic love does evolve within us all more collectively, then wonderful.
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  9. #99
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    If love was a universal truth, I'd be a depressed and sad little person. But I'm not, so it isn't.

    Is love a subjective truth to 'most' people on this planet? Probably, I'm just not most people.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #100
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    What is vice? All that proceeds from love and weakness! What is virtue? All that proceeds from stregnth and power!

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