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  1. #31
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Btw Whatever I think you are not the kind of a person for this kinds of things. You are simply too much all over the place to fit into something like this. (toward my personal opinion)
    but I want to be LESS scattered!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #32
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Technically, according to the bible, hell doesn't exist. At least not yet. People having near death experiences involving hell are under an error of judgement as it's yet to even be created, and is supposed to occur AFTER the rapture, which hasn't happened.



    And of course, there's the fact, that the chances are hell won't exist then either as was merely added in by priests who were controlling the masses back then as a way of enticing the peasants and serfs into behaving. "Do as we say OR GO TO HELL >=O " is a good way to get people to listen to yeu without question.

    Excommunication used to be a fate worse than death, and was thrown around for all sorts of silly reasons.

    If yeu carefully read over the bible, there's actually alot of stuff mentioned in it that doesn't make any sense at all in any religious sense, but on practical grounds it looks like it was put in there for the sake of trying to keep people from being stupid and killing themselves. According to leviticus even, yeu can't eat shellfish. Which isn't something "evil", it's just a high chance of food poisoning is all back then and the mortality rates were already high enough as it was.



    In any case, hell's been viewed alot of ways. The absence of god. Solitary confinement. Burning hellfire. Many views beyond those as well. Chances are none of them are real, honestly.

    Then again, the god of the bible is a bigoted, fussy spoiled child with a bad temper and a huge ego but no interest in lifting a finger to help anyone directly. He let his angels go to war and kill each other off rather than just perform one miracle to show he existed, because they went into a holy war because about 1/3rd of them didn't believe he existed, or didn't believe he was truly godlike if he DID exist. And humans were only made because the angels killed so many of each other off that god didn't have enough people to worship him any longer. Hence why he told them to go forth and multiply; so that he'd have more worshipers.

    That being said, I can't believe in the god listed in the bible. He doesn't deserve worship. I'd like to think that if there IS a higher power, that he's not even more flawed than I am as a mere mortal. For someone who's supposedly the pure embodiment of good and knows all, sees all, and loves all, bible god is a real ass, and nowheres near related to the one most christians worship or preach about.

    Bible god would probably damn everyone to hellfire; he's kind of a jerk like that. He didn't mind wiping out nearly the entire population of the planet either, nor letting one of his most devoted follower's life be torn apart by satan on a bet. Bible god's enough of an ass he probably would let everyone go to hell who didn't worship him. We can only hope that the real God, if there is one, isn't the spoiled brat of a child that bible god is.

  3. #33
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    but I want to be LESS scattered!
    Wanting and getting it are two very different things. I am sorry but I simply don't see you as someone that will just settle down and believe. (at least not in at this age)


    Maybe if you manage to develope some Fi you will have a chance.

  4. #34
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    I'm a buddhist, but I understand the catholic/christian lingo. So I present what I know is truth through christian genre.


    The thing about God is that people assume they know what the deal is, but never read up on it. Even some of the priests and reverends I talked to all contradict themselves. If pressed for an answer, they will serve up crap because their position of authority commands it.

    It wasn't until I struck out on my own trying to find answers and the pivotal point was then I learned the cardinals and upper priests didn't think of God as someone you can shake hands with. God is just a concept.

    Finding God to provide you with a feeling of happiness is the same thing as finding cocaine to provide you with a feeling of happiness. They are both extrinsic. I hear people praying for things and I do multiple face palms because they got it all wrong.

    At the core of it, it's the service that's important. God it's just something like a figurehead that makes it easier to align the actions. In the service of God, love thy neighbor, the 10 commandments, etc. It's one's own actions and efforts to uphold these principles that bring happiness and self esteem. God cannot give you these things and doesn't. If you help someone else, you feel good because you were in a position to make someone else smile. God didn't give you jack squat. It's your own efforts.

    It doesn't matter which religion you follow. The most important thing is the life of practiced religion that brings "god into your life".

    The thing about daily prayer is another way of goal setting. It's a way of aligning your mind to focus on things. If you pray in the mornings and at the evening, your mind is focused and your subjective experience or subjective window is tuned to those things you prayed about.

    This is the important part of practicing a religion. It's for personal reasons and it's INTRINSIC. If you need church or God to keep you going, then you're a crack addict.


    In my youth, I studied the bible and understood it's tenets, but I hated the church with a passion because most of them were hypocrites. Be kind only on sunday but be a bitch on the other days. And it was the most atrocious use of God' forgiveness I've ever seen. "If I murder someone, I'll just as for forgiveness and I'll be square with god". It was messed up.

    One thing I did learn was that you don't need church to be with god. You never had to, or ever will need the church. Don't be nice to people and expect rewards from god. "god works in mysterious ways". And the foolish thing that they waste their lives trying to find god, when all they has to do was to look inside and find that god was with them all along.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    To start off- I'm not intentionally anti-religious by any means- I grew up with a mother who loved to go to church and has the pleasant and gentle view that God's there for us whether we want him to be or not, and he loves us all equally. This should have been a good grounds to feeling SOMETHING towards God, I'd think, but apparently it wasn't

    To make it more confusing, I even spent 4 months living in a convent as part of a room and board package once... they were cool nuns, they loved humanity in general and had such an optimistic and non-judgemental attitude towards it. They really DID put their faith into good works to help the poor, the sick, the un-spoken... even if the people in question weren't even Christian- they were wonderful people, but I still didn't FEEL anything

    I've gone to various different types of churches- I've been to temple several times, I have gone to mosque on several occasions, to a few pagan celebrations... I've studied Hinduism, Buddhism and have even attended a Ba'hai service and still I don't feel that I fit...

    What's up with this God fellow and why does he taunt me so?

    I would LOVE to beleive in something, have a community of a sort and have that feeling of safety, calm and acceptance that people can find with religion but it just doesn't click. Part of this is because I feel that who I AM doesn't quite jive correctly with a lot of religions- for some I'm too exhuberant and fascinated by sensory experiences, for some I am an evil sinful harlot... and I can't stand the idea of a religion that would send anyone to Hell... if I couldn't do it I sure as hell don't want to beleive in a God who would

    And it's not that I'm an atheist either- I beleive in something- just the thought that I can't quite put my finger on it really bugs me... religions fascinate me, I love reading about them, but I can't manage to fit in

    What sort of sick bastard of a deity would do that to a person?
    Is it a deity which is responsible for this? Why do you not quite "Jive" with these different spriritual communities and should you even? Perhaps you've been called to be agnostic and skeptical to counter the fervour and fundamentalism of others in the world?

    I search as you do for spiritual answers, the filters which are most consolatory to myself are those which I've been culturally attuned to in some ways, though having read Jung I try not to let those filters become blinkers.

    Better to feel the way you do than to settle for less.

  6. #36
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    but I want to be LESS scattered!
    but why?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  7. #37
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    But even with that in mind I am hopeless case when it comes to spirituality.
    I simply ask too many questions instead of just feeling things. Plus that same T provides peace so there is no need for something that will calm me down.
    I'm about as T as it gets, and I've found that questioning my faith has only made it stronger.

    I don't think I would like to believe in anything I was forbidden to question.

    I get the feeling that most of the antagonism towards God in this thread would be more apt if it were directed specifically at those acting as his liaison.

  8. #38
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    and I never get the feeling of wonder and awe in the presence of a church or holy book that I do in staring at the night sky or looking at a forest... churches just seem to have taken the spirit out of religion in a way
    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    FWIW, I once had to leave a worship service because I really needed to go stand outside in the rain. I needed to feel God out there, not in a stuffy building singing stupid songs. I imagine if anyone realized what I was doing they must have thought I was a complete kook. Maybe rightfully so.
    These are awesome. I totally appreciate finding god in the rain.

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    but why?
    hehehe...!

    Yup, being raised baptist certainly drains any joy out of god and leaves no sense of connection.

    I spent a couple of years back reading up on hinduisim. There were several different ways you could worship:

    1. action
    2. devotion
    3. knowledge
    4. the last one which I cant remember right now.

    Anyways the point was that each of has has a path by which we can touch god/sacredness/"gooey weird in between stuff o' religion".

  9. #39
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    The whole thing about Hell guys, neither God nor anyone else is any way able to prevent people going to hell, in this life or an afterlife, if you've ever tried with a family member or friend who's got debilitating personality problems, PTSD or alcoholism you'll know this.

    Its not so much a case of being punitive or eager to make people feel the consequences of their actions, the reality is simply that there ARE consequences. For instance do you blame God or Gravity if you walk off a cliff and die?

  10. #40
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Wanting and getting it are two very different things. I am sorry but I simply don't see you as someone that will just settle down and believe. (at least not in at this age)


    Maybe if you manage to develope some Fi you will have a chance.
    She's a TP; don't expect much Fi. Fortunately Ti can serve the same purpose, so no worries.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The whole thing about Hell guys, neither God nor anyone else is any way able to prevent people going to hell, in this life or an afterlife, if you've ever tried with a family member or friend who's got debilitating personality problems, PTSD or alcoholism you'll know this.

    Its not so much a case of being punitive or eager to make people feel the consequences of their actions, the reality is simply that there ARE consequences. For instance do you blame God or Gravity if you walk off a cliff and die?
    I feel like this argument has really missed the point. The arguments for Hell, God, etc. being illogical are intended to show inductively that there is a very low probability that Hell even exists in the first place. Your argument seems to work only for people who already believe in Hell but are complaining that it's unfair.

    So when people point out how nonsensical the idea of Hell really is, telling them, "It doesn't matter if it's illogical because it's real and them's the facts yo" doesn't really contribute anything meaningful because you've failed to show compelling evidence that Hell exists at all, and reason points to a high probability that it doesn't.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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