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  1. #21
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah... I think that the feeling of divide there is the split between traditional religion (I grew up in the rural midwest- god was always refered to as a guy, so when in doubt as to what pronoun to use, I usually find it easier to just use masculine ones so that the conversation doesn't get sidetracked by gender discussion... as we can see this works FANTASTICALLY! ) and anything that fits with what my views on things are... and somehow that irks my Fe-ish need to connect

    *joins the church of Saslou*

    and yeah, to JJJ, the most "connection" to things I've felt is at times when I've done something like pull off the main road, lay on the hood of my car and just look at the stars

    and to cafe- I guess it isn't an introversion thing I am terrible at being an introvert... I really don't know what it would relate to now that I'm thinking
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #22
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    As mentioned above, you can think of god in other ways. Like good works, selfless love, and kindness. I'm converting to Reform Judaism. My teachers have said it's normal to question the existence of a personal (all-knowing) fairytale like god. They don't believe in that idea either, but they say it's good to focus on the positive in this world, and attribute that to what god could be.

  3. #23
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah, I don't think I could beleive in a religion that didn't support questioning... that would make it too cultlike for me...

    and I actually enjoyed going to temple because of the discussions of doing good and the fact that they didn't talk about "the evils of sin"... a positive focus is totally a wonderful thing- too many places I've been said "don't do this- it's evil" as opposed to "try to do good"

    and one thing that I remembered that's always stuck in my mind is actually writen by an astrologer she intentionally mixed up the word Good with God while writing... I kind of liked that in a way
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #24
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    you're are having these feelings because you are getting older and putting the pieces together. completely normal. i grew up being told that i had to believe in god and recently when i mentioned something about it to my mother, i was taken aback by her, "YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD?!?!" reply. i've been spoken to rather aggressively by more than one christian whenever i've brought questions up that they don't know the answer to.

    i'm not really sure what i believe in but at this point and time in my life, so for now i am comfortable sitting on the fence. in other words i am too insecure as a human being to announce that there is nothing but this, but i am leaning much more towards that way of thinking than ever before.

    i am currently reading the god delusion and so far it speaks volumes to me as did religulous but i normally keep these opinions to myself, especially since i live in the bible belt and prefer to not be preached to. i respect other people's beliefs and expect the same in return.

    edit: i'd also like to add that i went to church on and off for years and went to a christian elementary, middle and high school. my mother believes in god because society tells her she needs too, but she doesn't go to church. i have a few intelligent christian friends (cafe is one) but most of the religious people that i come into contact with are nut job hypocrites and not too bright.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  5. #25
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    and yeah, to JJJ, the most "connection" to things I've felt is at times when I've done something like pull off the main road, lay on the hood of my car and just look at the stars
    I don't know what your connectedness experience is on the hood of your car. Like I said, the one I've experienced is a physical sensation which seems to originate from the stomach. It differs from an acid experience in that it feels overwhelmingly peaceful, clean, homely (in the non-ugly sense) and right. If it's all in the head then it certainly has psychosomatic effects for me. It doesn't seem to have much to do with what I'm thinking about at the time, since it has surprised me with its advent on a number of occasions. Man, I don't even know why I'm telling you this. I guess I just want you to know that when/if you have the experience, you'll know it. You won't have to talk yourself into it, or ask yourself if it really happened. That's been my experience, at least. But I'm not the best person to talk to on the subject by any stretch of the imagination. It's difficult to imagine a worse person tbh.

  6. #26
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    and to cafe- I guess it isn't an introversion thing I am terrible at being an introvert... I really don't know what it would relate to now that I'm thinking
    The reason I thought it was an introversion thing was because my religion is very extrovert oriented. Everybody is supposed to be emotionally expressive and exuberant during worship. Everybody is supposed to be out there boldly telling everyone about Jesus. Everybody is supposed to be at church three times a week, plus involved in a couple of other group ministry things regularly.

    The other stuff like Supporting Our Troops and voting republican and being against gay marriage and in favor of school prayer isn't related I/E but you get the idea.

    I figured I'm just not the target audience because I'm an introverted weirdo, but you aren't an introverted weirdo, you're just really smart. So there went that theory.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #27
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah... to add more confusion into the mix, my ISTJ has the same feelings on religion as I do... he was actually somewhat thrilled with my additions to the amount of books on religion in the house (you'd think that we were running an interfaith seminary here ) Both of us overthink things too much to just go with the flow of a mainstream religion in a way...

    And I enjoyed both the god delusion and religulous- I have a devoutly christian friend who I've gotten in long debates with over the idea that there is "one true religion" before- knowlege from both sources came in useful in a way- but the idea that "if you're not Christian, you don't beleive in God" was mentioned as well

    and I never get the feeling of wonder and awe in the presence of a church or holy book that I do in staring at the night sky or looking at a forest... churches just seem to have taken the spirit out of religion in a way
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #28
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    FWIW, I once had to leave a worship service because I really needed to go stand outside in the rain. I needed to feel God out there, not in a stuffy building singing stupid songs. I imagine if anyone realized what I was doing they must have thought I was a complete kook. Maybe rightfully so.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #29
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I think you had it right

    it's like I Heard The Learned Astronomer, in a way
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #30
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It doesn't really count if the only reason you're doing it is to get something out of it.

    It seems like many folks want to make God into some sort of genie that fits conveniently in their back pocket. Something they can take out whenever they need something or want to feel better about life, but that goes back into hiding the rest of the time.

    I've heard it best put this way, God isn't there to deliver you from your troubles, but to deliver you through them.

    I'm of the opinion that spirituality can be whatever you want it to be. Do what works for you, whether that is meditating on your own, or going to church or w/e.

    It's all about what works for you, makes you happy, and helps you to become a better person.

    I hope that wasn't as confusing as it sounded in my head.


    Well when I said results that was just a Te vocabulary. Mean I too don't think about religion as something what just gives power to abuse. So I agree with you.


    But even with that in mind I am hopeless case when it comes to spirituality.
    I simply ask too many questions instead of just feeling things. Plus that same T provides peace so there is no need for something that will calm me down.




    Btw Whatever I think you are not the kind of a person for this kinds of things. You are simply too much all over the place to fit into something like this. (toward my personal opinion)

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