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  1. #1
    Ginkgo
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    Question A Question for All Christians

    Many of the fundamental beams that hold the house of Christianity up are built on the stone of original sin and forgiveness. When the Origin of Species was tossed into the realm of intelligence, sin became obsolete in the wake of species and scientific inquiry. Still, many Christians hold on to this precept by using their imagination to circumvent the story of original sin, or by clinging to the fundamentals in rejection of the theory of evolution.

    So, I have a question for any Christian who believes in original sin. I'm not trying to taunt or challenge it, but rather I would like to see people's imagination expand.

    If Christ were to come back right now, be resurrected a second time and told you: "I'm sorry, there is not an afterlife. My Father can resurrect me, but he cannot resurrect you."

    Could you forgive him?

  2. #2
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I think the fundamental pillar of Christianity is healing. That's what it's about. We are all broken by life and sorrows and tragedy... Christianity, at its core, is about hope, that there is healing to be found in the power of love.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I think the fundamental pillar of Christianity is healing. That's what it's about. We are all broken by life and sorrows and tragedy... Christianity, at its core, is about hope, that there is healing to be found in the power of love.
    aww...that's beautiful
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    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    I don't know if forgiveness could be possible in this scenario. Not because one's obligation to not forgive this Jesus would be so clear as to preclude the possibility of forgiveness, but because this scenario would entail a radical skepticism about everything--including the knowledge of the nature of forgiveness.

    If the OP were possible, could a person in that world know what it meant to forgive another? I don't think so.

    If God can be a deceiver, then we rational agents have no reason to trust that the faculties that we use to discover meaning and to formulate a criterion of truth are indeed veridical: we'd be plunged into intellectual nihilism too deep from which to escape.

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    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    If Christ were to come back right now, be resurrected a second time and told you: "I'm sorry, there is not an afterlife. My Father can resurrect me, but he cannot resurrect you."

    Could you forgive him?
    I would have serious doubts that this was Christ.
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  6. #6
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I think the fundamental pillar of Christianity is healing. That's what it's about. We are all broken by life and sorrows and tragedy... Christianity, at its core, is about hope, that there is healing to be found in the power of love.
    I would agree with this, although there are many pillars as Tater has astutely noted and the need for healing like other doctrines is based upon the idea of original sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post

    If Christ were to come back right now, be resurrected a second time and told you: "I'm sorry, there is not an afterlife. My Father can resurrect me, but he cannot resurrect you."

    Could you forgive him?
    This is a bizarre question and I fail to understand the point of it, how it relates to original sin or how it can possibly expand my imagination.

    First of all you misunderstand Christian eschatology. I don't think any Christian believes Christ will be resurrected a second time. All Christians believe he is currently sitting at the right hand of God. He will return, but he won't be resurrected because he isn't dead.

    Is it fair to say that the basis of your question is: what if God and Jesus Christ actually existed, but they either lied to us outright in the bible or allowed false statements in the bible... the end result being there is no afterlife?

    No. I would not forgive him. Any moral basis for forgiveness would cease to exist because the God of the Bible would not exist.

  7. #7
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I would have serious doubts that this was Christ.
    Well, let's just assume he performs some miracles and proves himself to be so for the sake of argument.

  8. #8
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Well, let's just assume he performs some miracles and proves himself to be so for the sake of argument.
    David Blaine already did that like 2 years ago.

  9. #9
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I would agree with this, although there are many pillars as Tater has astutely noted and the need for healing like other doctrines is based upon the idea of original sin.



    This is a bizarre question and I fail to understand the point of it, how it relates to original sin or how it can possibly expand my imagination.

    First of all you misunderstand Christian eschatology. I don't think any Christian believes Christ will be resurrected a second time. All Christians believe he is currently sitting at the right hand of God. He will return, but he won't be resurrected because he isn't dead.
    Well, ok. Let's just presume he approaches you. He descends from Heaven. I'm not postulating that you believe that he would approach you, or that the Bible says so. It just simply happens one day.

    Is it fair to say that the basis of your question is: what if God and Jesus Christ actually existed, but they either lied to us outright in the bible or allowed false statements in the bible... the end result being there is no afterlife?

    No. I would not forgive him. Any moral basis for forgiveness would cease to exist because the God of the Bible would not exist.
    Is this because... you would be disdainful of the fact that there would be no afterlife?

    I mean, surely there is some degree of altruism to be had just for the sake of this finite life. Or is that meaningless to you?

    Are you moral and forgiving because there's an infinite carrot on a stick when you die, or are you moral and forgiving because it's simply... noble to be moral and forgiving within your social body?

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Many of the fundamental beams that hold the house of Christianity up are built on the stone of original sin and forgiveness. When the Origin of Species was tossed into the realm of intelligence, sin became obsolete in the wake of species and scientific inquiry. Still, many Christians hold on to this precept by using their imagination to circumvent the story of original sin, or by clinging to the fundamentals in rejection of the theory of evolution.

    So, I have a question for any Christian who believes in original sin. I'm not trying to taunt or challenge it, but rather I would like to see people's imagination expand.

    If Christ were to come back right now, be resurrected a second time and told you: "I'm sorry, there is not an afterlife. My Father can resurrect me, but he cannot resurrect you."

    Could you forgive him?
    Two points I can think of right now:

    1. The question is not relevant. That isn't the theology, so it doesn't matter what the answer is. I have every confidence a fundie would tell you, "But Jesus would never do that!"

    2. There's lots of people who take an in-between view and/or merge the concepts, or believe in some modified level of Original Sin that is no longer relevant to your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    David Blaine already did that like 2 years ago.
    Yes, honestly, Obama was the Third Coming of Jesus, because David Blaine was the Second.
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