User Tag List

First 7891011 Last

Results 81 to 90 of 148

  1. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    What is interesting is that the myth teaches us, that not only He was free from Original Sin, but his Mother was also free from Original Sin.
    You're thinking of Roman Catholicism. Here is what the Bible says:

    By default, none are sinless--
    for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

    Jesus was the only exception (no mention of Mary)--
    God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:27)

    Jesus corrects a woman--
    As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." (Luke 11:27-28)

    Mary identifies herself as having needed a savior--
    And Mary said: "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior (Luke 1:46-47)

  2. #82
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    You're thinking of Roman Catholicism. Here is what the Bible says:

    By default, none are sinless--
    for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

    Jesus was the only exception (no mention of Mary)--
    God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:27)

    Jesus corrects a woman--
    As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." (Luke 11:27-28)

    Mary identifies herself as having needed a savior--
    And Mary said: "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior (Luke 1:46-47)
    Even the devil quotes scripture for his own purposes.

  3. #83
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Even the devil quotes scripture for his own purposes.
    Isn't the devil just a myth like the rest of it? According to you, I mean.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Was he actually a carnal man, as you or I am?
    Christ is sinless. Additionally accepted the form of a man's body, and walked sinless all of his days in his flesh on earth.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  5. #85
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,585

    Default

    Sticking to the Bible to learn about Jesus is selective reading. There is more information about Jesus from his early followers than what made it into the Bible. The Bible as we know it today was compiled generations after Jesus, out of motivations that were as much political than anything else, with the aim of solidifying the primacy of one early Christian group over its competitors (e.g. Gnostics).

    Some of these excluded documents suggest that Jesus did, indeed, have the usual carnal desires, perhaps even having a relationship with Mary Magdalene. Notice that the fact that Mary seems to have been the first to see the supposedly risen Christ gives her no traction in later interpretations of events.

    Yes, the equation of sin with carnal desire and sometimes all manner of physical pleasure is a hurtful and insidious legacy. It has been used to justify much unhealthy behavior, misogyny being one large subset of this. Adultery is mentioned in just one of the 10 commandments, though coveting one's neighbor's wife could be seen as a precursor "sin". A better indication of the connection between sin and sex is that, when Israel sinned by disobeying God, they were compared not with a murderer, or a traitor, or a liar, but with a harlot. The repeated use of the harlot metaphor suggests that sexual promiscuity was viewed as the worst sin of all.

    I make a distinction between the historical Jesus, and the mythical Jesus Christ. From the limited historical writing, we can gather that Jesus led a life of unusual spirituality and openness, reaching out to the marginalized in society to offer compassion and hope. In doing so, he made enemies in both the Jewish establishment and the Roman authority (status quo of his day), leading not unpredictably to his execution.

    The idea of virgin birth, descent into the Hell, and subsequent resurrection is a story present in mythologies that predate the time of Jesus. The story seems to have been overlaid on the historical Jesus by early followers, perhaps to gain supporters, or tap into a grander if figurative interpretation of the often harsh events of his actual life. There is nothing wrong with finding inspiration or solace in this version of events. Indeed, many other cultures and belief systems have done so. What strains credibility is claiming factual validity for what is a figurative and spiritual truth.

    For a historical account of much of this, see Riane Eisler's The Chalice and the Blade. For a fictionalized account, see Clysta Kinstler's The Moon Under her Feet. The second stands the Jesus story on its head so completely, but in a way that causes me to have if anything more respect and regard for Jesus, not less.

  6. #86
    likes this gromit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    6,652

    Default

    Thanks for this post, Coriolis.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  7. #87
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Sticking to the Bible to learn about Jesus is selective reading. There is more information about Jesus from his early followers than what made it into the Bible. The Bible as we know it today was compiled generations after Jesus, out of motivations that were as much political than anything else, with the aim of solidifying the primacy of one early Christian group over its competitors (e.g. Gnostics).
    meh. I'm not bothered by the canonization process.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I make a distinction between the historical Jesus, and the mythical Jesus Christ. From the limited historical writing, we can gather that Jesus led a life of unusual spirituality and openness, reaching out to the marginalized in society to offer compassion and hope. In doing so, he made enemies in both the Jewish establishment and the Roman authority (status quo of his day), leading not unpredictably to his execution.
    Are you kidding? There's 5000 documents that form the NT from within the first 100 years of initial writing. They're roughly 99.5% accurate. The bible is easily the most reliable ancient document we have. In comparison we only have 49 copies of Aristotle's writings and they're from 1400 years after initial writing.

  8. #88
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    I think the last book of the NT was written by the apostle John - "Revelation" and that was done prior to the end of the 1st century. The gospel accounts were written within decades of Jesus death.

    The Bible states at 1 Timothy 3:16 that the Bible is "inspired of God"- that means it's his thoughts, expressed through the writings of 40 different men. It's impossible then to conclude that the Bible was put together for political reasons.

    The scriptures also tell that, after the death of the apostles, there would be a great apostacy. (I'll have to find the scripture later- I'm at work now). Included in that period would be a host of inaccurate information, designed to confuse and mislead anyone seeking to know the truth. Those are the writings that came centuries later and were pushed by the political and even religious authorities of the time, killing the credibility of the Bible- the same writings you discuss here.

    All of your arguments can be disproved by information within the Scriptures themselves. Mary was Jesus mother. The Bible stands alone and is consistent with the history surrounding.

    It's up to the individual to make that decision, though. We can't rely on what someone tells us the Bible says. If you haven't looked within it yourself, and studied it, how can you be sure?

    Yes, the equation of sin with carnal desire and sometimes all manner of physical pleasure is a hurtful and insidious legacy. It has been used to justify much unhealthy behavior, misogyny being one large subset of this. Adultery is mentioned in just one of the 10 commandments, though coveting one's neighbor's wife could be seen as a precursor "sin". A better indication of the connection between sin and sex is that, when Israel sinned by disobeying God, they were compared not with a murderer, or a traitor, or a liar, but with a harlot. The repeated use of the harlot metaphor suggests that sexual promiscuity was viewed as the worst sin of all.
    Actually, the sexual promiscuity symbolizes the way the Israelites acted with surrounding nations, and is symbolic of something larger. Instead of sticking to their husbandly owner (God), they made covenants with other groups for protection and alliances. God wanted them to look to him for guidance, but they went and sold themselves, just like a harlot does. This was mentioned many times in the OT, ultimately leading to the Israelites being captured by the Babylonian Empire in 607 B.C.E. If you recall, Babylon was the greatest world power up to that point, and was very influential. A lot of non-Christian "pagan" traditions can be traced back to Ancient Babylon.

    Harlotry is mentioned again in the NT in Revelation where "Babylon the Great" is considered selling herself to the "wild beast", or political factions (political powers are represented by beasts in the Book of Daniel), in defiance of God. This actually represents the way religion has allied with politics in our day and time. When Jesus came to Earth, he taught his followers about a Kingdom (Our Father Prayer) and he did not get involved in the Politics of his time. Religions involvement with Politics today is not approved by God, thus, God disapproves of any religious group that claims to be his representatives yet are not leading the way consistent with Christ's example, and has identified them as that symbolic Harlot, Babylon the Great.

  9. #89
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I think the last book of the NT was written by John the Baptist - "Revelation" and that was done prior to the end of the 1st century. The gospel accounts were written within decades of Jesus death.
    Minor issue -- No, John the Baptist is a distinct personality from John of Patmos / the disciple John. (John the Baptist -- Jesus' cousin -- was far more extroverted in his approach and did all his spiritual work hands on until his execution.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Are you kidding? There's 5000 documents that form the NT from within the first 100 years of initial writing. They're roughly 99.5% accurate. The bible is easily the most reliable ancient document we have. In comparison we only have 49 copies of Aristotle's writings and they're from 1400 years after initial writing.
    That, and we have copies (within the Dead Sea Scroll collection) of Isaiah and other OT books that verify the translation record back to the first century AD.

    I think my issue with the Scriptural records is not about the transcription process (which I think has been shown to be pretty sound)... but simply that we have no way of verifying the specific content to be true. We just know it's been copied accurately for many centuries, not whether the original content was accurate.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #90
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Minor issue -- No, John the Baptist is a distinct personality from John of Patmos / the disciple John. (John the Baptist -- Jesus' cousin -- was far more extroverted in his approach and did all his spiritual work hands on until his execution.)

    Oops you are right! I have to correct that immediately.

    JTB's head was chopped off by Herod shortly after Jesus was baptized.

    Good catch, Jen! Thanks.

Similar Threads

  1. [Other] What would you do if you was in power?
    By Saslou in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 06-13-2009, 03:48 PM
  2. If MBTI was just a radiostation that played...
    By ReadingRainbows in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-20-2009, 03:48 PM
  3. If I was married to a...
    By Angry Ayrab in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-05-2008, 09:40 AM
  4. If BlueWing Was a Book...
    By Totenkindly in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-03-2007, 02:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO