User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Tolerance

  1. #1
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    367

    Default Tolerance

    I was walking home today and I saw an interesting bumper sticker which I thought was rather ironic.

    It stated: Tolerance. Believe in it.

    And I thought—is tolerance really tolerance unless it tolerates intolerance?

    What do you think? Is it possible to force tolerance onto a group of people with legislation and still consider it tolerance?

    No, tolerance doesn't mean you have to like or endorse differing views, but it means you can't interfere with or disrespect them. That's the way I view tolerance. So when you frame intolerance itself as a philosophical position, to speak out against it is inherently intolerant.

    Funny concept, huh? People who speak out against intolerance are themselves intolerant, since by speaking out, they fail to respect the opposing position, and ironically are unwittingly opposing themselves.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    I agree with you if the "intolerance" is extreme and try to control the discourse, but otherwise they are just voicing their opinions, correct?

    Incidentally: I usually have tried to approach it out of love, not tolerance per se.

    With my family, for example, I've realized we really disagree on some substantial issues... but I had to be willing to let them hold and voice their own opinions and listen without freaking out on them. This was really hard because I felt like their views were erosive to my sense of self, but at the same time I've come to realize they have their own prerogative to believe whatever they think is right, and voice their opinion. At the same time, I have the right to reject it and challenge them / assert my own view.

    I don't like the word "tolerance" because it stops too soon, at least in what meaning that particular word seems to convey to me. I feel like I have to go beyond it... to something more akin to "love."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    mrs disregard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7,855

    Default

    I don't know what that bumper sticker means, but it doesn't speak on tolerance's behalf.

    Of course tolerance incorporates tolerating intolerance. That is when one really needs it.

    Tolerance is using understanding, or gravitating away from ignorance, in order to live a more constructive life.

  4. #4
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    I think the premise of tolerance as a virtue has to be highly developed, even moderated, in anyone who pretends to a serious belief in ethics. Tolerance, if not balanced by some opposing principle, amounts to an unwillingness to judge any behavior regardless of its motivations or effects.

    I would venture to say that contemporary users of the term "tolerance" don't really mean that; therefore we have to figure out in what ways the principle of tolerance should inform our thoughts, speech, and actions.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I agree with you if the "intolerance" is extreme and try to control the discourse, but otherwise they are just voicing their opinions, correct?
    Yes. I would say it has a lot to do with how they frame their opinion.

    Incidentally: I usually have tried to approach it out of love, not tolerance per se.
    The distinction I see here is that love allows for "I'm doing this for your own good whether you believe in it or not" while tolerance does not. If I'm off-base feel free to correct me here. I'm not saying one method is better than another.

    I don't like the word "tolerance" because it stops too soon, at least in what meaning that particular word seems to convey to me. I feel like I have to go beyond it... to something more akin to "love."
    I certainly am not trying to imply that tolerance is the end-all be all stance to live by. I am however attempting to single it out, outside the context of any higher contexts it may be a part of, such as love.

    Quote Originally Posted by disregard
    I don't know what that bumper sticker means, but it doesn't speak on tolerance's behalf.

    Of course tolerance incorporates tolerating intolerance. That is when one really needs it.

    Tolerance is using understanding, or gravitating away from ignorance, in order to live a more constructive life.
    I would agree with this. However, though this stance implies a certain involvement from the one doing the tolerating, I can see how the word could be construed to mean a deep level of indifference as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon
    I think the premise of tolerance as a virtue has to be highly developed, even moderated, in anyone who pretends to a serious belief in ethics. Tolerance, if not balanced by some opposing principle, amounts to an unwillingness to judge any behavior regardless of its motivations or effects.

    I would venture to say that contemporary users of the term "tolerance" don't really mean that; therefore we have to figure out in what ways the principle of tolerance should inform our thoughts, speech, and actions.
    Very true. Complete tolerance in this 'pure' form of the word I'm using would result in what basically amounts to not being able to discern anything. Motivations and hence actions would disappear..

    The mainstream meaning of tolerance is more like "Don't kill each other because of your religions please."
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  6. #6
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,810

    Default

    In this video Don Carson explains the difference between the modern view of tolerance as respect for individuals and the popular post-modern view of tolerance as respect for ideas.

    He comes to the conclusion that "the new view of tolerance is not only inconsistent, it's incoherent, and proves, in fact, to be less tolerant than the brand of tolerance that was around under modernism. Because at the very point where it comes up with that which disagrees with it the most, it has to dismiss all opponents as intolerant and bigoted, and therefore becomes, in fact, totalitarian."

    [YOUTUBE="9PVJlnvVeSM"]The Intolerance of Tolerance, Don Carson[/YOUTUBE]

  7. #7
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENfP
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,219

    Default

    I totally agree with you OP.

    Um, the thing is... just because you decide to "tolerate" somebody, by doing that you aren't making any promises to actually willingly understand their point of view, accept it, accept them as an equal to you, or treat them as well as you would treat those on the same side of the fence as you.

    The only thing "tolerance" indoctrinates is that you don't go over and harm them directly.
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  8. #8
    Senior Member LeafAndSky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Posts
    308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    Funny concept, huh? People who speak out against intolerance are themselves intolerant, since by speaking out, they fail to respect the opposing position, and ironically are unwittingly opposing themselves.
    Yes, it is a funny concept. I wonder if there's any such thing as human logic. Tolerance is just one of the more obvious examples.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    119

    Default

    I would say no. The moment a belief is forced upon a person, it ceases to be belief and becomes nothing more than a means to oppression, often losing the original value of the belief in the process.
    INTP,
    Neutral Good/Lawful Good even split. 5w4 sp/sx melancholic/supine, even split. Yes, I stole this method of placement from black cat.

Similar Threads

  1. One-way tolerance
    By proximo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 12-08-2009, 03:32 AM
  2. A survey of dark moods: Attraction, preference and tolerance to them.
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 11-23-2009, 10:39 AM
  3. [SJ] SJ Patience/Boredom/Tolerance
    By ArbiterDewey in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 10-11-2008, 01:50 PM
  4. The difference between Freedom and Tolerance?
    By Kiddo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-05-2008, 06:18 PM
  5. Risk Tolerance and MBTI
    By proteanmix in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 06-08-2007, 02:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO