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Thread: Waking up

  1. #31
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    Waking up from Contempt

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Sure. Academia protocol aside, I was surprised by your initial comments and merely wanted to confirm if you had some source for them or if they where pulled out of some donkey's ass
    I am struck by the fact that it is normal here to end up by referring to, "ass".

    And I am struck because we don't even use the word, "ass", rather we use the word, "arse".

    To us, the word, "ass", is an American expression or an Americanism.

    I have tried to draw attention to this American habit by describing it as scatological. But this only seems to draw laughter when I am being deadly serious.

    I have also tried to draw attention to its aetiology or cause in toilet training. But this only seems to cause general merriment rather than understanding.

    But such training at a very early age when we are vulnerable and dependent on a powerful parent, marks us for life.

    Such training reveals the quality of the child rearing practice to which we have been subject.

    And naturally we repress the humiliation and emotional pain of such training and so we are unable to consciously express our humiliation or give it voice.

    So we express our emotional pain by acting it out, mainly with our own children.

    However it also overflows into normal life when we call someone, "a donkey's ass".

    And the phrase, "a donkey's ass", perfectly expresses the contempt with which we were treated by our own parents.

    But this contempt by powerful people on whom we were dependent for our physical and emotional well-being is too painful to bear. And so we just pass it on to others.

    But rather than passing it on, we are starting to wake from the nightmare of childhood.

    And rather than humiliating our children, we are starting to help them achieve their goals.

  2. #32
    Ginkgo
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    Usually, when one is speaking about pulling things out of an ass, or making an ass metaphor, it is because they are searching for a humorous saying. In this context, a "donkey's ass" is an unexpected location from which someone might divulge unfounded or contrived information. The answer to a query is usually not in the rectum of farm animals. And because finding information here is ironic, it is amusing. It is also amusing because it is unexpectedly guttural. It need not necessarily be attributed to an innate culture of psychosexual malfunction. In fact, we use this metaphor usually because we heard it from somewhere else, and we relay it because it fits within the context, just like the rest of our vocabulary. So, because you do not understand the principles of this context, you are confused. It is like reading an instruction manual that was translated from Chinese (even verbatim translations are contextually flawed) , or working for an Asian employer who bows when you greet him. You were raised in a culture where the language and the mannerisms are not succinct with ours, and visa versa. If we were to understand your usage of "mate" in the same way you understand "pulling information from your ass", then perhaps we would think you are homosexual every time you beckon another male. Would this be an etiological sign that perhaps your whole culture is sexually confused? Not necessarily. And because I have the rationale to reserve my judgement about this Australian phrase, I think that you have been tainted by a hint of xenophobia.

    Tell me Vic, how exactly is American dialect harmful to the American? Does it convolute communication because it is not precise enough? Is it bad for a language to splinter into various sub-languages? Even the British have various dialects that they use to identify various "classes" with. And in America, your dialect is generally indicative of your education, how well you retain information, what books you read, and who you speak with. No one flaunts Webster's Dictionaries as a symbol of arcane knowledge here.

    I really do not understand the repercussions of this point your bringing up. It's like the Evangelical who discounts the theory of evolution because Charles Darwin was not fond of Christianity. You can't disprove a thing by navigating the intentions of the debater. So you're going to have to dissect how our dialects are harmful and how Webster's Dictionary is harmful before we'll listen; rather than lambasting Webster himself. To us, you're sounding an alarm in the face of a non-evident earthquake.

    George W. Bush was even humorous to us, not because his vernacular was the result of his education; but because he was flatly ignorant. And he refused to compromise in the face of his ignorance. Al Gore was much more eloquent; but even if we had elected him, would it be wise to characterize his face as the face of America? Is Obama the face of America? No, and if you think that way then your thinking is only superficial. It is like a student trying to understand a calculus textbook when he has not yet mastered basic arithmetic. He only sees 1 dimensional symbols that don't mean anything. Which is exactly what our president is in the face of the media. Exactly what anyone sees in the media if they are not edified.

  3. #33

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    Controversy about this guy aside I bought one of his books once and it was rubbish, full of banalities and not a good writer.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Usually, when one is speaking about pulling things out of an ass, or making an ass metaphor, it is because they are searching for a humorous saying. In this context, a "donkey's ass" is an unexpected location from which someone might divulge unfounded or contrived information. The answer to a query is usually not in the rectum of farm animals. And because finding information here is ironic, it is amusing. It is also amusing because it is unexpectedly guttural. It need not necessarily be attributed to an innate culture of psychosexual malfunction. In fact, we use this metaphor usually because we heard it from somewhere else, and we relay it because it fits within the context, just like the rest of our vocabulary. So, because you do not understand the principles of this context, you are confused. It is like reading an instruction manual that was translated from Chinese (even verbatim translations are contextually flawed) , or working for an Asian employer who bows when you greet him. You were raised in a culture where the language and the mannerisms are not succinct with ours, and visa versa. If we were to understand your usage of "mate" in the same way you understand "pulling information from your ass", then perhaps we would think you are homosexual every time you beckon another male. Would this be an etiological sign that perhaps your whole culture is sexually confused? Not necessarily. And because I have the rationale to reserve my judgement about this Australian phrase, I think that you have been tainted by a hint of xenophobia.

    Tell me Vic, how exactly is American dialect harmful to the American? Does it convolute communication because it is not precise enough? Is it bad for a language to splinter into various sub-languages? Even the British have various dialects that they use to identify various "classes" with. And in America, your dialect is generally indicative of your education, how well you retain information, what books you read, and who you speak with. No one flaunts Webster's Dictionaries as a symbol of arcane knowledge here.

    I really do not understand the repercussions of this point your bringing up. It's like the Evangelical who discounts the theory of evolution because Charles Darwin was not fond of Christianity. You can't disprove a thing by navigating the intentions of the debater. So you're going to have to dissect how our dialects are harmful and how Webster's Dictionary is harmful before we'll listen; rather than lambasting Webster himself. To us, you're sounding an alarm in the face of a non-evident earthquake.

    George W. Bush was even humorous to us, not because his vernacular was the result of his education; but because he was flatly ignorant. And he refused to compromise in the face of his ignorance. Al Gore was much more eloquent; but even if we had elected him, would it be wise to characterize his face as the face of America? Is Obama the face of America? No, and if you think that way then your thinking is only superficial. It is like a student trying to understand a calculus textbook when he has not yet mastered basic arithmetic. He only sees 1 dimensional symbols that don't mean anything. Which is exactly what our president is in the face of the media. Exactly what anyone sees in the media if they are not edified.
    I am please to be edified.

    And we speak our language every day so it colours our thought.

    So Noah Webster's American English is spoken by us, and American English speaks us. We create our tools and our tools create us, just as we created the internet and the internet is creating us right now.

    And humour is often used to hide a deeper truth. So if we unpack a humourous saying, we may find something inside.

    And just as the inuit have twenty words for snow, we have twenty meanings for mate, from a life long friend to being called mate by the New South Wales Right. And being called mate by the NSW Right is like being sent flowers by the mafia. And every now and then someone comments that mate reflects homophilia. But mostly mate is used ironically as a mild remonstrance to remind us to do the right thing.

    And I am delighted to be edified by our American cousins.

  5. #35
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    Any time, Vic. I'm pleased to be edified as well.

    Who are the New South Wales Right? I honestly don't know because I'm an ignorant American der her her doi...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We create our tools and our tools create us
    Very observant.

    I'm sure the irony of being perverted by language is not lost on you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Any time, Vic. I'm pleased to be edified as well.

    Who are the New South Wales Right? I honestly don't know because I'm an ignorant American der her her doi...
    The New South Wales Right are the Right Wing of the Labor Party of New South Wales, Australia.

    And they have the reputation of being a tough political machine.

    But most interesting, they cultivate this image.

    So even they use the word mate ironically.

  8. #38
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    My Little Mate

    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Very observant.

    I'm sure the irony of being perverted by language is not lost on you.
    Yeah, we are all mates.

    And although it has mostly been used between men, I find that women are using mate more often. And sometimes I call a woman mate.

    Sometimes we refer to, "my little mate". As a controversial judge referred to a slightly improper friend as his, "my little mate".

    So the phrase, "my little mate", is used ironically to refer to a slightly shady friend.

  9. #39
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    I am reading the wikipedia page. Do you live in Victoria?

    EDIT: I just realized "Oz" was synonymous with Australia.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yeah, we are all mates.

    And although it has mostly been used between men, I find that women are using mate more often. And sometimes I call a woman mate.

    Sometimes we refer to, "my little mate". As a controversial judge referred to a slightly improper friend as his, "my little mate".

    So the phrase, "my little mate", is used ironically to refer to a slightly shady friend.
    Well, in the case of most men, our little mates are far more likely to wander into trouble when they're in charge rather than our brains, aren't they?

    The issue you describe with emotional education of children stems from radical individualism. Everyone is responsible for the trouble they find themselves in. However, no one is responsible for the trouble of others. Of course, this is antithetical to the parent-child relationship, where the parent is indeed responsible for the trouble children find themselves in.

    Americans do not like being responsible for things they cannot control. So they express this as rage in early childhood, and then place them in school systems whose primary function is not to educate, but to keep children under control.

    This is because Americans don't see their children as individuals, but rather as extensions of themselves. Thus an American mother is more likely to scold a child by telling her that she is embarrassing the mother, rather than telling the child that her behavior is shameful.

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