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Being vs. Doing

Lark

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I wasnt sure whether to post this in this part of the forum or the psychology one, I read a while back about Eric Fromm's dichotomy between being and doing and his belief that social character was trapped in the doing mode, which could wind up making people neurotic since they couldnt relax and experience being at rest without experiencing a feeling of anxiety, experiencing and being cognizant (spelling) of all the marginal costs or trade offs in terms of time, effort or money, all the time.

Now I post this right now because I'm experiencing this a little right now, I'll watch a film or enjoy a book but then wonder what I'm meant to be doing, when I'm not meant to be doing anything, I think the suspiscion that I could or should be spending my time better or differently has entered into my unconscious and is showing up as emotions, ie anxiety or unease, and thoughts, wondering what I should be doing.

In part it could be because I've began to become precious about my leisure time and trying to balance commitments or obligations but I wondered if anyone had experienced anything like this and how they overcame it themselves. Its not particularly troubling, I'm not unhappy but its not the good life if you know what I mean.
 

Totenkindly

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I think we really do judge ourselves by over how much we "do" ... as if the value of our lives is based on what we accomplish. For people locked in that pattern, it's an unstable existence and sometimes you just have to step away and value living and yourself just because you're alive.

(I think some people have the opposite problem. They sort of short-change themselves and others because they don't really do squat... or they just do what they feel like without any larger vision.)
 

Lark

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Good link Slippy, cheers, that's a good point Jennifer, I think there are those two extremes and its how you exist without being drawn into either of them.

When I examine what's going on in my social centre, everyone's 30+ a tipping point has been reached were more people are marrying and settling in one place than not and experiencing a kind of Gullivar effect with more ties to place and purpose than not there's people who're complaining about being in a rut, wanting to move house, job, do flexible working, travel, combine all three, to be honest I feel like I swing between envying them and being happy I have less golden hand cuffs than they do.

I think its tied into the whole dilemma about simply being versus doing and accomplishing, the funny thing is that what it takes to be or feel accomplished is a little funny because when I reflect upon it there's a lot of things done for symbolic purposes which dont add much to things (someone I know went off track on a third world holiday, they were almost kidnapped and had to return home early because they got an intestinal parasite which threatened their health and future ability to work, to me that shit, though they insisted that had they not had this experience they'd have felt like they "hadnt lived").

I meet the opposite extreme through work, people who wouldnt go to the end of the road or fill out pass port applications because its too much like work, too much of a challenge to be bothered with. I think there is a class and family dynamics thing to it.
 

Fluffywolf

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What I am, is a ghost. What I do, is haunting you!
 

Tiltyred

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That's a lesson that took me a very long time to learn. I always felt I had to justify my existence. Finally it sunk in that I am a child of the Universe and I have a right to be here. (That's a quote from an old hippie thing called Desiderata.) Notice it says "a right to BE here." Just be.
 

sculpting

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I meet the opposite extreme through work, people who wouldnt go to the end of the road or fill out pass port applications because its too much like work, too much of a challenge to be bothered with. I think there is a class and family dynamics thing to it.

Lark do you go on vacation? That seems way off topic-but bouncing off your passport comment, I notice I dont. I never have. Planning the vacation is a lot of work and money. But, funny, I dont feel like I am missing out greatly.

Maybe because I have no Se, I just dont feel like I have to "experience" new things to appreciate them. I can just imagine them. It's often enough for me to visit a new place and just pick up a rock or shell from a beach on a business trip-then I take piece of that place with me. So I guess I am more "being"???

I will enthusiastically explore the unexplored, but more for the pure novelty-not for a sense of accomplishment or achievement. The journey is important-so I can enjoy the journey by sitting on the sidewalk with my toddler and playing with chalk and be satisfied.

Yeah, i am so not on topic...Sorry!
 

Mycroft

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I think we really do judge ourselves by over how much we "do" ... as if the value of our lives is based on what we accomplish. For people locked in that pattern, it's an unstable existence and sometimes you just have to step away and value living and yourself just because you're alive.

(I think some people have the opposite problem. They sort of short-change themselves and others because they don't really do squat... or they just do what they feel like without any larger vision.)

Exactly. At the risk of sounding pat, it's important to strike a balance. All doing, all the time, and you may as well be a robotic forklift scurrying about a warehouse. All thinking and no doing, and the thoughts of all of the great philosophers would have been lost to us.

(I think it's important to have hobbies that, in addition to being relaxing, aid your greater vision, though.)
 

Lark

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Lark do you go on vacation? That seems way off topic-but bouncing off your passport comment, I notice I dont. I never have. Planning the vacation is a lot of work and money. But, funny, I dont feel like I am missing out greatly.

Maybe because I have no Se, I just dont feel like I have to "experience" new things to appreciate them. I can just imagine them. It's often enough for me to visit a new place and just pick up a rock or shell from a beach on a business trip-then I take piece of that place with me. So I guess I am more "being"???

I will enthusiastically explore the unexplored, but more for the pure novelty-not for a sense of accomplishment or achievement. The journey is important-so I can enjoy the journey by sitting on the sidewalk with my toddler and playing with chalk and be satisfied.

Yeah, i am so not on topic...Sorry!

I dont think you're off topic and I'd be similar, although sometimes I like to put the work in organising a trip or tour just so when I'm on it I can think, yeah, did the work now I have the reward.

What I was trying to convey was the sort of apathy, it wouldnt just be failure to have the will to organise but failure to even imagine or want to imagine anything different or novelty per se.
 

decided

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I am happy just being me, relaxing and doing nothing. But too much isn't good for me. I get in a funk after a while and mope.

So I like to do 'not-doing' as relaxing down-time. But not all of my time.
Doing and achieving things makes me happy too.

I guess it's about finding that balance; not letting the pendulum swing too far.
 

Saslou

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I am currently 'being' yet i want to be 'doing' .. I only have myself to blame.

I am a great believer in no regrets but my actions are not aligned to this thinking at present.

I was talking to someone the other day and i said that should my life come to an end very soon, i would be very disappointed with the things i had not done. Even though i can rationalise it and tell myself i have done so much and that i don't have a clue when my time will be up, still i don't make the move to get things happening.

Something is not quite right.
 

eternal recurrence

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I guess it's about finding that balance; not letting the pendulum swing too far.

Exactly. At the risk of sounding pat, it's important to strike a balance.

The question is how do you find a balance? For the sake of discussion, I'll argue that it is an illusion to tell yourself a balance is possible. Maybe you have to choose between a life of doing and a life of being?

- I need an example of someone in balance (their thinking) because I can only think of the extremes as outlined already.
- vacations can be fashioned, and i think generally are, as forced 'doing'
- hobbies can become forced elements of 'doing' in your life. In fact, thats how i think people generally consider them. Evidenced by the expectation you feel when someone says "so what do you do besides work?"

I dont know if this is definitely a Western cultural problem...it may be acute there, but I think its also a general problem of human existence.
 

Unkindloving

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There needs to be a healthy amount of both being and doing.
You're the only person who can define how much you should be doing or being. Rather, the only person whose opinion on that really matters. That's hard for people to come to terms with in the world with the way it is.

Everyone is beaten into this misconception that, if they aren't doing, they are lazy and wasting life. Other people are beaten into the misconception that, if they aren't being, they'll completely lose who they are and what the really want.
It's interesting and no one i've known has perfected it yet. When you balance it to your own standards, it should fit like a puzzle piece and you'll breathe a sigh of relief.
 

gromit

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The question is how do you find a balance? For the sake of discussion, I'll argue that it is an illusion to tell yourself a balance is possible. Maybe you have to choose between a life of doing and a life of being?

- I need an example of someone in balance (their thinking) because I can only think of the extremes as outlined already.
- vacations can be fashioned, and i think generally are, as forced 'doing'
- hobbies can become forced elements of 'doing' in your life. In fact, thats how i think people generally consider them. Evidenced by the expectation you feel when someone says "so what do you do besides work?"

I dont know if this is definitely a Western cultural problem...it may be acute there, but I think its also a general problem of human existence.

Something similar is the (Buddhist - ?) concept of mindfulness. Unless you are mindful as you are doing, it almost doesn't matter what the balance is. Keeping your mind/awareness present as you go through the day, week, year... as you commute or work or study or play pickup ball or play with your children or have a conversation or sit on the front step and watch the people walk by... being mindful as you do allows you to be even in the midst of action.

So I don't necessarily see it as an either/or, but more as a both... how can we let ourselves be in the midst of all of this doing? As we attempt to live more mindfully, the balance will sort of unfold. This has more or less been the case with my life, though. And it is certainly a process of trial and error.



Also, for good time's sake:
[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i8-t5biK10"]You Rock, Rock (from I Heart Huckabees)[/YOUTUBE]
 
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