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View Poll Results: Is it ever justified to smack somebody?

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  • Yes

    37 78.72%
  • No

    10 21.28%
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  1. #61
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Let me try to understand and excuse my being slow. You believe that sometimes fighting ends up as the best solution and yet you believe that it's still not justified in that situation? Your justice is then mere imagination?
    Sometimes fighting does appear to be the best solution. But it should have been prevented alltogether for it to be a justifiable course of action.

    Fighting back doesn't stop the fighting. Preventing the fight is what should be aimed for. If you find yourself in a situation where you can only fight, then you must have done something wrong in order to get there in the first place.

    So whilest I would fight, should I find myself in that situation. I do not see it as justifiable and would instead work on ways to prevent it from happening again.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Shouldn't Personal Justification require everyone's attention and thus require best solution? Doesn't justice deal with fairness and equal distribution?
    Only if you act on personal justification. This would be required with people like judges, but I dont take on that role in society. We must all have personal justifications before we can merge them with others. To me its a one-on-one thing and needs to be worked out between those people involved, no one has to take on anyones justification unless its applied large scale. If you are off quite a bit then yes you should reevaluate your personal justice or best solution. The people who seem to fight this style most are in things like politics where they aim for "group" decisions. The extremes end up so seperated its hard to come to a "deal". I am extremely flexible in this regard so I dont need to modify my personal justification, I know its not the best solution, but its my personal best solution.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #63
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    You're going to think this is librull word-splitting but I think the word "deserve" is the sticking point here. There are definitely times when a good clocking is necessary (self-defense is the only one I can think of at the moment) but it isn't exactly because the person "deserves" it. It's a practical matter, to get them off your back so you can get away.

    So practically speaking, yes, it can be necessary. But ideologically speaking there's really never a reason for it IMO. Doesn't mean I don't sometimes WANT to club someone with a deer antler but I manage to hold myself back most of the time.
    I agree with that. I don't think anyone deserves to be hit but there are situations were it isn't so clear in practice. Of course one question is if children should ever be hit, I have worked with kids who deserved a good smacking because they were out of control, in opposition to authority and abusing the fact that their environment was so lax when it came to punishing them for their destructive actions. I think with kids it completely depends on the personality of the child, if it is the only way to make them understand authority and boundaries I am not against smacking.

    With adults I would only hit someone in self-defence. But for example I can also understand a guy I knew who told me how his former girlfriend went bat-shit-crazy and hysterical in Glasgow's main train station and as a result he smacked her. I might feel like doing the same in such a situation but would hopefully be able to control myself.

  4. #64
    Senior Member ObliviousExistence's Avatar
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    humans as a whole aren't civilized enough to go the non-violence route yet, some people just need a good smack around from time to time. Whoever says violence is not the answer clearly has no clue what they are talking about.
    "He was free, free in every way, free to behave like a fool or a machine, free to accept, free to refuse, free to equivocate; to marry, to give up the game, to drag this death weight about with him for years to come. He could do what he liked, no one had the right to advise him, there would be for him no Good or Evil unless he thought them into being." JP Sartre

  5. #65
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Sometimes fighting does appear to be the best solution. But it should have been prevented alltogether for it to be a justifiable course of action.

    Fighting back doesn't stop the fighting. Preventing the fight is what should be aimed for. If you find yourself in a situation where you can only fight, then you must have done something wrong in order to get there in the first place.

    So whilest I would fight, should I find myself in that situation. I do not see it as justifiable and would instead work on ways to prevent it from happening again.
    your saying that your actions are not justified because you didn't prevent it from happening in the first place? But your not the only factor in this causality. You are only forced to face the problem because of outside forces not because you hadn't plan to avoid it. How is it unfair for you to retaliate?

    seems an impossible feat to remove the possibility of violence. With this in mind, the fair attitude would be to take this into account and act when obligated.

    The most effective action that could make the most people benefit from it is the most just.

  6. #66
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    You're going to think this is librull word-splitting but I think the word "deserve" is the sticking point here. There are definitely times when a good clocking is necessary (self-defense is the only one I can think of at the moment) but it isn't exactly because the person "deserves" it. It's a practical matter, to get them off your back so you can get away.

    So practically speaking, yes, it can be necessary. But ideologically speaking there's really never a reason for it IMO. Doesn't mean I don't sometimes WANT to club someone with a deer antler but I manage to hold myself back most of the time.


    I would answer the poll with yes, it's probably sometimes justified to smack somebody: not because they deserve it, but because the most practical answer is force. I don't know that anyone ever deserves to be hit. I lean toward no. The word justified is tricky, because it can imply serving justice or it can imply just cause that has nothing to do with punishment. A better question, in my mind, is, Is it ever practical to hit somebody? Yes, surely.
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  7. #67
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Fighting back doesn't stop the fighting. Preventing the fight is what should be aimed for. If you find yourself in a situation where you can only fight, then you must have done something wrong in order to get there in the first place.
    I disagree. Sometimes doing the wrong things is entirely the work of other people.

    It's like that Jefferson quote to the effect of "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who didn't."

  8. #68
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I disagree. Sometimes doing the wrong things is entirely the work of other people.

    It's like that Jefferson quote to the effect of "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who didn't."
    I've no doubt that the wrongdoing can be done by someone else. I'm just saying that launching a few nukes on a country isn't a justifiable way to gain world peace.

    Excuse me for going overboard on the metaphor here, but I can only repeat what I said in so many words. It seems I have a different idea of what real justification is. On a grand scale. But if you want to find your justification within the skirmish presented, go ahead. I mean, it's not like I expect humanity to better themselves, or even want or need them too. Just thought of pointing out the futility in fighting back.

    Justification is something that's being abused by every nation in the world, no biggie. I'm not interested in starting my own nation so it doesn't concern me. :p
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #69
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    It's like that Jefferson quote to the effect of "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who didn't."
    Sweet, now I know where that Magic: The Gathering card came from!
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  10. #70
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I've no doubt that the wrongdoing can be done by someone else. I'm just saying that launching a few nukes on a country isn't a justifiable way to gain world peace.

    Excuse me for going overboard on the metaphor here, but I can only repeat what I said in so many words. It seems I have a different idea of what real justification is. On a grand scale. But if you want to find your justification within the skirmish presented, go ahead. I mean, it's not like I expect humanity to better themselves, or even want or need them too. Just thought of pointing out the futility in fighting back.

    Justification is something that's being abused by every nation in the world, no biggie. I'm not interested in starting my own nation so it doesn't concern me. :p

    Well, all right, if you say so.

    I strongly suspect that, given that you are a person willing to make avoidance of violence an absolute top priority, living in a world with other people who have no such compunctions, it is by no means proven that you can always successfully avoid violence. I think there are likely to be times and places in which all your possible solutions are a null set.

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