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View Poll Results: I believe in...

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  • Abstinence before Marriage

    19 25.68%
  • Fidelity in Marriage

    58 78.38%
  • Being against Pornography

    15 20.27%
  • Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior

    9 12.16%
  • Patriotism

    12 16.22%
  • Religious Freedom

    67 90.54%
  • Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia

    19 25.68%
  • Being against Addictive Drugs

    27 36.49%
  • Being against Alcohol

    10 13.51%
  • Being against Gambling

    14 18.92%
  • Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.

    15 20.27%
  • Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.

    9 12.16%
  • The Ends justifying the Means.

    10 13.51%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 11 to 20 of 230

  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior
    Oh... THANKS.

    Patriotism
    I believe in prioritized relationships... but not at the expense of the even larger family of humanity. (i.e., I will spend my energy to help my kids first, but not mistreat other kids just to make my kids look "special" -- and the same goes for my country. I love the USA, but I see myself as part of humanity.)

    Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia
    I don't think either are "positive things" -- but in limited situations venture into a gray area of "lesser evil" and/or personal volition.

    Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.
    What does "intolerance" mean here?

    Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
    I think discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between two evils/negatives. (If things are so clear as being Good and Evil, well, there's not much choice, is there?)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    In my defense, I got these values from a Traditional Values Coalition pamphlet, using just the headings and not their definitions, because I wanted them to be completely open to interpretation when people voted. I think they are much more nicely define on their website, so since the tolerance and discrimination one has proven difficult for people to interpret, this is how they define it.

    Edit: Weird, it won't let me post all that. Try again!

    Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior.

  3. #13
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
    I think discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between two evils/negatives. (If things are so clear as being Good and Evil, well, there's not much choice, is there?)
    Some Christian writer--and I want to say that it was one of the church fathers--famously wrote to the effect that "Discernment isn't telling right from wrong; discernment is telling the right from the almost-right."

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior.
    They still did not explain what they meant by "not tolerate."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I notice they left off "death penalty" from the pro-life one. I can't label myself pro-life if only abortion and euthanasia count. And even then I have numerous caveats (i.e. I'm not in favor of overturning RvW, but I think we should be fixing the social conditions that cause abortion to be an attractive option, and pay more attention to end-of-life care and elder respect).

    Some of those ones near the bottom are pretty ambiguous.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #16
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    They still did not explain what they meant by "not tolerate."
    On the other hand, killing someone for indulging in behaviors that may kill him seems strangely counterproductive...

  7. #17
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    There's only two for me.

    Fidelity in Marriage - Only what I expect for mine. Anyone else can do what they want.

    Religious Freedom - I think anyone should have the freedom to do anything that does not infringe on another persons Freedom and or rights.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior.
    That makes it plenty clear that I don't agree with their mindset. I'll be sure to not let their best intentions get the best of me.

    Then again, maybe I can. I hereby do declare religion as harmful! I will no longer tolerate it and will begin picketing churches immediately! Repent and accept rationalism, lest I discriminate upon your irrational belief system! I will take your children to prevent you from harming them! I will isolate you from society so you cannot harm society!

    Hey, I could get into this mindset!

  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    On the other hand, killing someone for indulging in behaviors that may kill him seems strangely counterproductive...
    *gasp*

    Of course no one would ever suggest that.

    More seriously, I was thinking about whether I should tolerate people who teach their children such an exacting and judgmental way to evaluate and respond to the behavior of others. I don't think it makes "good" people, I think it instills guilt and fear excessively in the child, and I think it perpetuates the same critical spirit that is so destructive for personal growth and community survival.

    They need to specify much more clearly what "positive steps" they are taking to love the sodomite. (or... so to speak.) The underlying tone of their comments is harsh and negative.

    Edit: DARN IT GATSBY -- stop pre-posting my comments!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #20
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    They still did not explain what they meant by "not tolerate."
    I'll try to post it all one last time, but for some reason it keeps cutting it off.

    Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior. We believe in discrimination in the good sense: choosing between good and evil, right and wrong, the better and the best. We believe in discrimination in the sense of being discerning between good and bad choices. Popular culture maintains that all forms of discrimination are wrong. This is incorrect. A person with “discriminating taste” is one who uses wisdom in making choices. In short, we believe in intolerance to those things that are evil; and we believe that we should discriminate against those behaviors which are dangerous to individuals and to society.

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