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View Poll Results: I believe in...

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  • Abstinence before Marriage

    19 25.68%
  • Fidelity in Marriage

    58 78.38%
  • Being against Pornography

    15 20.27%
  • Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior

    9 12.16%
  • Patriotism

    12 16.22%
  • Religious Freedom

    67 90.54%
  • Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia

    19 25.68%
  • Being against Addictive Drugs

    27 36.49%
  • Being against Alcohol

    10 13.51%
  • Being against Gambling

    14 18.92%
  • Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.

    15 20.27%
  • Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.

    9 12.16%
  • The Ends justifying the Means.

    10 13.51%
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Results 151 to 160 of 230

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    ... That made no sense... several times.

    Look, I'd really hate to snipe on this nice and most congenial forum, but do you say these things just to seem original? I don't get your thinking at all.
    It makes perfect sense. Communists is revolt against a capitalist society. Now maybe in your hippie fantasy world, communism results in a utopia, but in reality, communism leads to a brief anarchy, followed by the new generation of capitalists or fascists that seize control exerting the same kind of control and oppression that existed in the capitalist society, except no one has privacy.

    Patriotism is pride. And people with no pride have low self-worth and end up destroying themselves. This extends to a nation, as well.

  2. #152
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    It makes perfect sense. Communists is revolt against a capitalist society. Now maybe in your hippie fantasy world, communism results in a utopia, but in reality, communism leads to a brief anarchy, followed by the new generation of capitalists or fascists that seize control exerting the same kind of control and oppression that existed in the capitalist society, except no one has privacy.


    First of all, I'm not even close to a hippie.

    Principally, these different government models all work in different ways.
    They can also fail in different ways. There are multiple kinds of dystopia*, you know?
    If you're saying that they are the same because they all lead to each other in a cycle, that's ridiculous. You can't say two things are the same simply because they share a whole chain in evolution. It is important to distinguish my body from a wave of heat. It came from one, and will eventually become one, but that seems like a pretty poor reason to presently call my body a wave of heat.
    Understand?
    And that only applies if you're theory were correct to begin with. I don't think the pattern is so specific and clock-work as you make it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Patriotism is pride. And people with no pride have low self-worth and end up destroying themselves. This extends to a nation, as well.
    Pride also ruins a lot of things. Is a nation, in its literal sense, even necessary for the rest of these so-called values?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    It makes perfect sense. Communists is revolt against a capitalist society. Now maybe in your hippie fantasy world, communism results in a utopia, but in reality, communism leads to a brief anarchy, followed by the new generation of capitalists or fascists that seize control exerting the same kind of control and oppression that existed in the capitalist society, except no one has privacy.

    Patriotism is pride. And people with no pride have low self-worth and end up destroying themselves. This extends to a nation, as well.
    You're confusing Stalinism with Marxism. Marxist communism is classist rather than nationalist. It's the international workers revolution, I would think the revolutionaries would be quite proud of what they're doing.

  4. #154
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Although I agree with you in principle, I have to disagree to some degree. There is a fundamental difference because "Christianity" describes a fundamental set of beliefs where atheism does not... this is most notable when not generalising the concept of god(s), where there is an actual theistic belief (like Christianity has).

    One of the foundations behind the new atheist movement is to break down and explore the morality/accuracy of each distinct claim. This leaves no common ground between atheists as there is no codified set of beliefs, either metaphysical or practical. There does exist a metaphysical similarity behind Christians, however, and I think it would be fair to assume certain common beliefs, even if they were just restated. (just as saying "all atheists disbelieve in theism" would be a tautology, so is "all Christians believe in Christ", but the 2nd declares a positive assertion).

    But I agree in the sense that what a "real Christian" (ie: belief in Christ) does not lead to the grouped behaviours that people normally assign them to. In some cases it is legitimate (ie: criticism for the belief in Christ). This is harder to extend to atheism since there are atheistic religions, pretty much leaving the attack to be of "not believing in x is foolish" rather than "your belief in x is foolish".

    Thank you for the clarification. I value your thoughts. I hope that I can express myself so clearly. I definitely agree with your positive assertions theory, though I find it incredibly valuable to note that not all Christians beliefs about Christ are identical. For instance I, break down the statements, claims and so on and so forth and hold them to rigorous testing for morality and accuracy, and I feel confident in them to define a moral code to live by for myself. so I consider myself a Deist who just so happens to believe in Christ.

    I certainly would never condemn someone for believing something different than me. The only thing I ever condemn people for (Or at least the ideal I strive for) is bigotry. I feel this to be what I really fight.

    I was wondering if you could tell me a little more about 'new' athesim and how it differs from...er... old(?) atheism? a-theism, and I'll have to look up the etymology when i have more time.
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
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    -Victor Hugo

  5. #155
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    You've worded it better than anyone, methinks. Patriotism is pride. Pride is the glue that keeps society together. A lack of patriotism is called communism, which, in the end, is the same thing is capitalism or fascism, take your pick.
    I think that one of the essential differences between communism and Capitalism is how they define beliefs. I am short on time so I have to be quick and might not express it clearly.
    Marxists believe that the means dictate the idea.
    Capitalists.... or rather the belief system most commonly accept by capitalists is that the idea dictates the means.

    This is one of the reasons Marx was so highly popular. he told the Proletariat that they were the reason for change.
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
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    -Victor Hugo

  6. #156
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Pride also ruins a lot of things. Is a nation, in its literal sense, even necessary for the rest of these so-called values?
    Never the less, patriotism is definitely useful when it comes to the overall success of the nation, which has a direct effect on the overall success of the individual citizen. Patriotism does not necessarily have anything to do with the government...only the country.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    I was wondering if you could tell me a little more about 'new' athesim and how it differs from...er... old(?) atheism? a-theism, and I'll have to look up the etymology when i have more time.
    “New Atheism” is a nonsense term conjured up by Wired magazine. The only thing that's new is atheists being more assertive in fighting back against the god afflicted. This has mostly been spurred on by the theocratic policies of the Bush regime and 9/11 showing just how destructive religion can be. If anyone thinks the books by Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris are shrill, hateful or mean they're being entirely too thin skinned.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    You're confusing Stalinism with Marxism. Marxist communism is classist rather than nationalist. It's the international workers revolution, I would think the revolutionaries would be quite proud of what they're doing.
    It's all the same to me. It boils down to the same thing. It's just greed and the desire to keep what we have and get more.

    As for patriotism, what is wrong with xenophobia, really? Some people (outsiders) you just don't want on your property or in your house. And isn't the country, in principle, like one big house?

    I'm not defending America, I'm just saying that patriotism has its benefits. Other places like the UK or France would not have stood for so long without patriotism.

    And besides, many of the intellectuals who came up with ideas for changing the world and were considered unpatriotic ended up beheaded in certain nations. So intellectualism can be self-destructive, too.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    It's all the same to me. It boils down to the same thing. It's just greed and the desire to keep what we have and get more.

    As for patriotism, what is wrong with xenophobia, really? Some people (outsiders) you just don't want on your property or in your house. And isn't the country, in principle, like one big house?

    I'm not defending America, I'm just saying that patriotism has its benefits. Other places like the UK or France would not have stood for so long without patriotism.

    And besides, many of the intellectuals who came up with ideas for changing the world and were considered unpatriotic ended up beheaded in certain nations. So intellectualism can be self-destructive, too.

  10. #160
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=sassafrassquatch;86509]
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
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    -Victor Hugo

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