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View Poll Results: I believe in...

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  • Abstinence before Marriage

    19 25.68%
  • Fidelity in Marriage

    58 78.38%
  • Being against Pornography

    15 20.27%
  • Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior

    9 12.16%
  • Patriotism

    12 16.22%
  • Religious Freedom

    67 90.54%
  • Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia

    19 25.68%
  • Being against Addictive Drugs

    27 36.49%
  • Being against Alcohol

    10 13.51%
  • Being against Gambling

    14 18.92%
  • Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.

    15 20.27%
  • Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.

    9 12.16%
  • The Ends justifying the Means.

    10 13.51%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 141 to 150 of 230

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Oh hell no I can't agree with this. This is the most xenophobic, ethnocentric, culturally homogenous etc.etc.etc. insidious kind paranoia and hate masked behind a benign, feel-good veneer of 'family values'. Who exactly is included in 'our culture'. Who's speaking and behalf of whom? I highly doubt that I or 'my people' (or even you) are included in this 'our' so no thank you.

    I will fight to protect and uphold the basic human rights (and OMG people, I do not consider 'the right to smoke indoors in public places' to be covered under that) regardless of what or whose culture someone is from or identify with.

    See, the problem with this 'which do you agree with' thread is knowing where these stated values come from, I cannot divorce them their real meaning and the agenda they serve. I know some of these stated traditional values seem so harmless or even wholesome but I know better.

    I abstain. Hahah, well no I actually I don't actually abstain abstain but you get the picture.

    Damn...look what you bunch of perverts have done to me! I will say this for the 4th or 5th time until it becomes my tagline and immediately associated with me but -- I am a L-A-D-Y.

    That is my traditional value.
    As I said, the problem I have here is when it comes to Americans having to learn another language to make immigrants happy. Why should this have to change? We've always spoken English. My ancestors who moved here learned English, why should Hispanic or Asian immigrants be any different?

  2. #142
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze
    But the right wing IS out to get me.

    And that's exactly where these values ad verbatim were lifted from.

    I was speaking directly to the original question and the original source of these values.

    So in this case, I do know better.
    In all fairness, though, it does say Traditional Values...and traditional almost always means old. Then we throw in a dash of "everyone is American." Or I suppose they could have been lifted from...the Bible (excluding the last three, religious freedom, and patriotism).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's very much my issue too. Who says their view of what the culture should be is the right one?
    Likewise, who says that it should be more liberal and what makes them correct? "Traditional Values" are useful because they are a more effective form of social control, as is the case of most major religions. Order supersedes justice in almost all cases. (I am a libertarian so I don't disagree with you, I'm just stating the other side).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    It's just rather offensive that some people, instead of viewing the group in context, are so attached to their way of life that they not only disenfranchise those who disagree but also attach moral stigma to dissent... as if people who do not share their particular values are now degenerate in some way.
    This occurs on all sides of the fence, sadly.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #143
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's very much my issue too. Who says their view of what the culture should be is the right one?

    And to support their POV, they often try to go back and say, "Here's what the Founding Fathers intended." But usually this is just scrounging for support for their concepts of what already they believe the country should be. And after all, the Founding Fathers have been dead for 200 years or so, the country is very different, and the world is very different; perhaps what was appropriate then is not appropriate now; and usually their view of the past is still a glorified one.

    (Honestly, if Thomas Jefferson tried to become an elder on the board of an evangelical church, he'd most certainly be kicked out; and yet people keep appealing to him and his peers as if they would endorse conservative religion.)

    It's just rather offensive that some people, instead of viewing the group in context, are so attached to their way of life that they not only disenfranchise those who disagree but also attach moral stigma to dissent... as if people who do not share their particular values are now degenerate in some way.
    Exactly. Most of the 'founding fathers' were actually deists. Which based their knowledge of god on personal experience. And many condemned the sects and superstitions of Christianity that were prevalent at the time.
    I think Ben Franklin said something along these lines when he was older and asked if he believed in Christ. "If he is (real), I'll meet him soon enough."

    P.S. The enmity, and disdain towards "all Christians' who they claim have certain views thing is getting to me a little. It is a small favor to ask, but I would really appreciate it if people would say 'some Christians' or 'most Christians'. Just because I like the teachings of the Man named Christ born 2000 years ago, and I give to him deference, does not mean that I interpret his words the same way that other people do automatically. It's no big thing, all I ask is that when referring to people of the Christian religion, do not assume our stupidity, our arrogance, our self righteousness or anything like that. that's like me saying, "All atheists have no heart and could care less about the other humans around them." (Extreme to prove a point, and I Don't * feel that way.)
    Thanks!
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
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    -Victor Hugo

  4. #144
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    P.S. The enmity, and disdain towards "all Christians' who they claim have certain views thing is getting to me a little. It is a small favor to ask, but I would really appreciate it if people would say 'some Christians' or 'most Christians'. Just because I like the teachings of the Man named Christ born 2000 years ago, and I give to him deference, does not mean that I interpret his words the same way that other people do automatically. It's no big thing, all I ask is that when referring to people of the Christian religion, do not assume our stupidity, our arrogance, our self righteousness or anything like that. that's like me saying, "All atheists have no heart and could care less about the other humans around them." (Extreme to prove a point, and I Don't * feel that way.)
    Thanks!
    Although I agree with you in principle, I have to disagree to some degree. There is a fundamental difference because "Christianity" describes a fundamental set of beliefs where atheism does not... this is most notable when not generalising the concept of god(s), where there is an actual theistic belief (like Christianity has).

    One of the foundations behind the new atheist movement is to break down and explore the morality/accuracy of each distinct claim. This leaves no common ground between atheists as there is no codified set of beliefs, either metaphysical or practical. There does exist a metaphysical similarity behind Christians, however, and I think it would be fair to assume certain common beliefs, even if they were just restated. (just as saying "all atheists disbelieve in theism" would be a tautology, so is "all Christians believe in Christ", but the 2nd declares a positive assertion).

    But I agree in the sense that what a "real Christian" (ie: belief in Christ) does not lead to the grouped behaviours that people normally assign them to. In some cases it is legitimate (ie: criticism for the belief in Christ). This is harder to extend to atheism since there are atheistic religions, pretty much leaving the attack to be of "not believing in x is foolish" rather than "your belief in x is foolish".

  5. #145
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Abstinence before Marriage It would be ideal and a beautiful thing if carried out but I think being hell bent on this is a bit over the top. I think sex is more meaningful if not abused and if saved for the person you plan to spend the rest of your life with. I'm not religious though, so I don't think it unethical to enjoy sex outside of marriage as long as you're smart about it.
    Fidelity in Marriage Most fucking definitely.
    Against Pornography No
    Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior What people do behind closed doors is none of my business. If it doesn't affect me or other innocent people then there shouldn't be a problem with it.
    Patriotism What is a country without patriots? Not worthy of mention I think.
    Religious Freedom Of course.
    Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia Generally speaking I am against these practices but I don't rule out every circumstance.
    Against Addictive Drugs Yes.
    Against Alcohol Not if used responsibly enough
    Against Gambling What you do with your money is your business. Unfortunately some people can't control and limit themselves which can lead to devastating consequences, but gambling in and of itself I don't oppose.
    Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture. I believe it is very important to preserve the family and culture but this is kind of a broad question.
    Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. could be, sometimes
    The Ends Justify the Means. Not always. Although I can't say I don't screw up myself, living with integrity is important.

  6. #146
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    As I said, the problem I have here is when it comes to Americans having to learn another language to make immigrants happy. Why should this have to change? We've always spoken English. My ancestors who moved here learned English, why should Hispanic or Asian immigrants be any different?
    Who told you had to learn another language to make an immigrant happy?

    Show me FACTS! FACTS! Numbers! Graphs! Charts! Charts of the charts! Quote me some primary sources!!!!

    BTW, methinks you should reopen a history book.

    And who is this 'we'. Please define 'we'. Who is included in this 'we' and who is not included and who is pending membership?

    And you didn't say anything about the African and European immigrants. Oh what, they don't have to learn English? Oh I see, so you just think they're SO MUCH BETTER?? And what about the Australians? You gonna let them walk around our great country with those funny little accents and mock us by speaking our language semi-retarded?

    Well?? Are you???

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    Patriotism What is a country without patriots? Not worthy of mention I think.
    You've worded it better than anyone, methinks. Patriotism is pride. Pride is the glue that keeps society together. A lack of patriotism is called communism, which, in the end, is the same thing is capitalism or fascism, take your pick.

  8. #148
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    Abstinence before Marriage I don't believe in this because I see no good reason for it and people may realize too late that they are sexually incompatible. Sex should be celebrated and I belive strongly in engaging it whenever someone feels psychologically ready, whether it is well before or after marriage.
    Fidelity in Marriage Yes, for me, but I can understand people having a different lifestyle
    Being against Pornography No, I'm pro pornography and think it is a useful thing in society
    Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior No, I'm completely pro that. If people have another preference, why shouldn't they follow it? It's already difficult enough for them to be against the norm. They should be able to follow their preferences.
    Patriotism No, any ingroup favoritism tends to lead to stronger prejudice towards outgroups
    Religious Freedom Yes!
    Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia No, if a woman has had a child because of rape it's only normal that she can choose abortion for example. For Euthanasia, better die than to live a life of suffering.
    Being against Addictive Drugs No, this is a private matter and the state should not interfere with this. It's your problem if you choose to take drugs.
    Being against Alcohol No, this is a private matter
    Being against Gambling No, this is a private matter
    Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture. I would have been inclined to say yes, but what destroys often is at the root of change
    Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. Meh
    The Ends justifying the Means. No.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Who told you had to learn another language to make an immigrant happy?

    Show me FACTS! FACTS! Numbers! Graphs! Charts! Charts of the charts! Quote me some primary sources!!!!

    BTW, methinks you should reopen a history book.

    And who is this 'we'. Please define 'we'. Who is included in this 'we' and who is not included and who is pending membership?

    And you didn't say anything about the African and European immigrants. Oh what, they don't have to learn English? Oh I see, so you just think they're SO MUCH BETTER?? And what about the Australians? You gonna let them walk around our great country with those funny little accents and mock us by speaking our language semi-retarded?

    Well?? Are you???
    Um, I wasn't talking about accents. The fact is that people who came to this country learned English (with a thick accent, yes, but they learned English), they didn't expect us to change things for them. The majority of the people speak English in this country, and in a democracy, majority rules (though most liberals and democrats seem to have forgotten about that). English should be the official language of the United States. It is only logical.

    The same principle applies should an English-speaker relocate to French-speaking country. They should learn French. That should be the first thing one does when moving to a country that does not speak their language. Personally, I have no intention of going to France, so I am not going to waste my time going there.

    The difference between British English, Australian English, Canadian English, and American English are not obvious enough; the differences in speech patterns remain comprehensible.

  10. #150
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    You've worded it better than anyone, methinks. Patriotism is pride. Pride is the glue that keeps society together. A lack of patriotism is called communism, which, in the end, is the same thing is capitalism or fascism, take your pick.

    ... That made no sense... several times.

    Look, I'd really hate to snipe on this nice and most congenial forum, but do you say these things just to seem original? I don't get your thinking at all.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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