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  1. #21
    Ginkgo
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    To help yourself, you must become what you want to be. It is that simple. To accomplish this, you establish a goal and create a plan for yourself. Analyzing yourself usually does no good, for dismantling a car will not teach you how to drive it. Occasionally the gears grind or a tire blows, but those deficiencies only become evident once you start driving. You measure the world before you measure yourself in relation to it, and the only way to measure the world is by exploring it.

  2. #22
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i agree...taking action gives you peace of mind that you are doing everything you can to get there...introspect and learn from it along the way...but don't over think or analyze your way out of actually doing.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #23

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    I tend to think that what our culture fosters is not introspection but narcissism and the self-help genre in its own way feeds this, I only really understood this following a read of Alex Lowen's Narcissism: Denial of the true self, I wouldnt have thought of someone attemting to improve themselves or better their social context in quite that way before hand.

    I reckon that he only really introspective culture is in the East, like Japan and China, there has been an immense amount of history and cultural determinism at work to make it so. Jung wrote some interesting stuff on this point about westerners who read eastern, I think in particular Indian, spiritual literature and then sought to emulate it, suggesting that it was simply ruinous for someone from the west to do so because the context was so different.

    Sometimes self-help should me less thinking, Fromm considering Zen considered its mind-body insights to be a good counter to the over thinking (cerebration) that he felt characterised the insight therapies of the west.

  4. #24
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Self help = realizing that you are ok the way you are and being yourself. Often people are unhappy because they are trying to change into something else which doesn't ever work.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    C'mon, self improvement is a confidence trick carried out for profit by the most powerful culture on earth.

    This is a culture that exports its popular culture to the world for profit.

    But the very saddest thing is that the denizens of this culture believe their own propaganda.
    Where does Carl Rogers play a factor in this?

    From my perspective, there is little difference between the notion of self-improvement and the desire for self-actualization.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Self help = realizing that you are ok the way you are and being yourself. Often people are unhappy because they are trying to change into something else which doesn't ever work.
    I can't agree with this.

    I mean, say you have a woman who's an alcoholic. Perhaps she's discovered that she's pregnant and thinking about quitting. But maybe she should just be content with being an alcoholic, because that's what she is?

    Change is difficult. Humans are creatures of habit. Those habits are formed by things which work for us. They define our personality. So to run against that is to run against ourselves. But growth requires change so we must re-learn our habits and become something else, so then we are that person and no longer pretending.

    Self-help is not meant to be a magic wand to become someone else, it's meant to serve as guideposts for those who take up the journey in earnest. The drive to enact change still needs to come from the individual.

  7. #27
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I think alcoholism would be considered an actual problem. I'm pretty sure it's obvious I wasn't saying that pregnant alcoholics should drink during a pregnancy.

    I'm sorry I don't go for the "guideposts" "journey" "earnest" "drive to enact change" stuff. I think the more people who are actually themselves the better.

    Accept yourself for who you are, accept others for who they are.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    I didn't mean to say that you were advocating drinking while pregnant. I'm unclear on where you draw the line between it being a problem, or an aspect of one's personality that one should accept and not seek to change.

    I intentionally picked alcoholism because it's a very defining and immediate concern. It's a change in lifestyle. The mother needs to pick right then and there how to deal with it or risk harming her child. How about smoking? Delayed but very nasty long-term implications. Overweight? Same thing, if less of an impact financially. Long-term career? Social anxiety? Stuttering? Biting your nails?

  9. #29
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Default THINKING AT THE ROOT OF UNHAPPINESS: A Manifesto

    Sorry I haven't kept up with this thread. I suck. I did, however, have some opportunities to clarify my worldview. Here's my manifesto.

    THINKING AT THE ROOT OF UNHAPPINESS

    It's not so much thinking, but the way thinking possesses us--the way it puts us in a trance. Thinking obstructs happiness and intuition. Not the intuition that Jung talked about, but the intuition that arises when you mentally STFU and are 100% honest with yourself about your situations, how you've been feeling, and more importantly, what you need to be doing in your life to get yourself back on track towards meaning and peace of mind. We you are this mentally still and quiet, you actually are happy, in a mild form or deep form. Intuition is just thought that resonates with that happiness. All thoughts, if you think about it, resonate with one's internal state. If you're feeling beauty, you see beauty everywhere. If you feel anger, you see what's lacking and frustrating about everything. Likewise, when you feel peace, you understand what's compatible with that peace. That's intuition.

    Intuition is a type of thinking, sure, but very different from habitual, obsessive thought. Habitual thought leads you into possibilities. Habitual thought concerns gains, and it always thinks you have more to gain somewhere else. Even if you don't actually take action, your thoughts will harass you and make you feel uneasy and confused. Intuitive thought it the opposite. It's goal isn't gain but peace, and it doesn't tease you with endless possibilities. It knows what goals you really need for peace, not advancement.

    There are 2 types of psychological disorders: disorders that arise from situation and disorders that arise from habitual thought and the compulsive, insatiable need for progress and gain. Personality disorder typically arise from habitual thought, i.e., from the need for gain and self-preservation though the particular gain might not be so apparent. Anxiety-based disorders concern ego maintenance and gain through the reduction and avoidance (or control) of fears. These fears threaten one's positive sense of self. I would classify most Axis II disorders (and other disorders that don't fall into the DSM's narrow, arbitrary scheme) as anxiety-based. Those thoughts concern thoughts of the future that protect the self. Other habitual thoughts that are fed to consciousness concern the past and are also intended to protect the sense of self by rehearsing threats to the person, the self, and threats to progress. It's habitual thought that creates the distress by replaying past and future scenarios and making the person lose touch with their inner joy and peace.

    Other times situations cause distress and disrupt a person's path to meaning, peace and self-actualization. A bad job, a fractious family members, a bad living situation. Even here, thinking is the problem because it leads to confusion. Not thinking opens up intuitive channels and guides a person towards the "right" decision, "right" being defined as what ushers in peace and harmony.

  10. #30
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^Did you just use a shitload of words to say "Ignorance is bliss"? :P

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I did read some reports lately about an evolutionary reason for depression, in that it is designed to make you introspect and analyze yourself, and detach you from an environment or behavior that is causing a problem. Basically, people that didn't pump the brakes didn't get out of destructive situations. So I don't think that introspection is necessarily the evil-doer in this instance
    The 'analytic-ruminative' model of depression. I don't think it manages to make a case for depression, but it does make one for introspection, as you say.

    Depression takes hold when rumination becomes obsessive and 'loopy' and starts to spiral out of control. This is clearly unproductive and unhealthy, but that doesn't mean that all introspection is. CBT is a way of reeducating those negative thinking habits and channeling them in a more positive direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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