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  1. #31
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Is that your husband?
    hot isn't he?
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
    .
    -Victor Hugo

  2. #32
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    hot isn't he?
    Well, since you're married, I'm relieved you weren't proposing to someone else.

    And since I'm married, I do not comment on other people's hotness.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    Lies, I would think, by definition are never comforting. -Never in the long run.

    I would not believe in that sort of God either, nor do I. The God I believe in does not punish you for the things you do not know, and offers redemption when you betray the things you do know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Sounds like your Christianity was a religion instead of a relationship.
    Atheists get this all the time. You christians really should come up with new material.

    Atheist: I used to be a christian but now I'm an atheist.
    Christian: What kind?
    Atheist: Denomination X
    Christian: Oh, those aren't *real* christians.
    Atheist: *headdesk*

    Look, I'm not getting into this again. I was raised southern baptist, they think they're right, they have their apologetics, reasons and arguments for why they're right. So do jehovah's witnesses, mormons, unitarian universalists, catholics, presbyterians, quakers, eastern orthodox, the christians who go on about love and a relationship with god and no one church has it right.

    You are no more correct than the baptist church I was raised in. I have no reason to believe any of you.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Atheists get this all the time. You christians really should come up with new material.

    Atheist: I used to be a christian but now I'm an atheist.
    Christian: What kind?
    Atheist: Denomination X
    Christian: Oh, those aren't *real* christians.
    Atheist: *headdesk*
    I'm not sure that is what either of those posts were attempting to express.

    Look, I'm not getting into this again. I was raised southern baptist, they think they're right, they have their apologetics, reasons and arguments for why they're right. So do jehovah's witnesses, mormons, unitarian universalists, catholics, presbyterians, quakers, eastern orthodox, the christians who go on about love and a relationship with god and no one church has it right.
    Agreed. However, that is not an argument against the existence of God. If that wasn't your intention... then great.

    You are no more correct than the baptist church I was raised in. I have no reason to believe any of you.
    True and true. Christians have failed in their responsibility to shoulder the burden of proof. Atheists are, as of yet, incapable of shouldering the burden of disproof. Time will tell. Science, the study of all things, continues to astound.
    "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

    "I drank what!?" -Socrates

  5. #35
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Atheists get this all the time. You christians really should come up with new material.

    Atheist: I used to be a christian but now I'm an atheist.
    Christian: What kind?
    Atheist: Denomination X
    Christian: Oh, those aren't *real* christians.
    Atheist: *headdesk*

    Look, I'm not getting into this again. I was raised southern baptist, they think they're right, they have their apologetics, reasons and arguments for why they're right. So do jehovah's witnesses, mormons, unitarian universalists, catholics, presbyterians, quakers, eastern orthodox, the christians who go on about love and a relationship with god and no one church has it right.

    You are no more correct than the baptist church I was raised in. I have no reason to believe any of you.
    I completely understand where you are coming from. To be sure I have no way of proving faith or the goodness of it to you. (A side note: It seems interesting that that is of an essence what faith is, things hoped for but not seen, and thus unable to be proven in any respect except on an extremely personal level) And nor do I want to push any sort of anything on you. I think people should find what makes them tick, their own personal Nirvana or insight. What do I gain by you believing in God? My beliefs can speak for themselves, and I don't need you to believe to validate them.

    However, your comments such as "You Christians really should come up with new material." Make me wonder if you in turn, give the same respect. I would think, from your other posts that you are intelligent and well thought out. I, on the other hand, rarely express myself gracefully.
    I believe in God. It's not to follow a crowd, a religion or an agenda. And I would never ever ever say that one faith could feel God better than another. Nor tell anyone else that their member's faith and relationships with God were less than mine (Though this is a common sin with in any religious community)

    My response was embarrassingly on the defense rather than offense. I felt that in your first comment you felt that all people who believed in God knew him to be those characteristics you spoke of. I realize now, that you were talking about your own experiences and had not come to peace with the beliefs you felt were forced on you.


    I wondered if you could clarify what about religion you think is not good for them?
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
    .
    -Victor Hugo

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityDeviantPride View Post
    ...

  7. #37

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    Eloquent.
    "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

    "I drank what!?" -Socrates

  8. #38
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    You want eloquence? I'll give you eloquence.

    Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering god; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

  9. #39

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    That was definitely eloquent.

    So, would you say that, in your personal experience most SP's tend toward believing? Or would you say that most SP's are ultimately utilitarian in their view of God and religion (If God and religion are useful and expedient to practical good... then they are good and ought to be considered... and if not, then not)?

    Or would you say that SP's, in your experience, fit into some other natural tendency?

    or none at all?
    "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

    "I drank what!?" -Socrates

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityDeviantPride View Post
    That was definitely eloquent.

    So, would you say that, in your personal experience most SP's tend toward believing? Or would you say that most SP's are ultimately utilitarian in their view of God and religion (If God and religion are useful and expedient to practical good... then they are good and ought to be considered... and if not, then not)?

    Or would you say that SP's, in your experience, fit into some other natural tendency?

    or none at all?
    SP:
    Hedonism is the religion of SP's. Not sex, not lasciviousness, but happiness and pleasure. Fun, excitement, joy, and sensory fulfillment are the ideals to be upheld. Many religions does not offer this, or at least aspects of those religions help us to achieve it. Beyond that, SP's are not inclined to believe. Where N's miss the mark with their deconstructions, the SP's accept that we don't know everything. Faith leads to fulfillment deluded, irrational thinking in a real sense, and denies real happiness is more important than nitpicky analysis and 'endless possibilities'.

    What brings us happiness and helps in a real way? That's the SP's religion.
    ESFPs and ISFPs might be more inclined to believe in something light and fluffy that doesn't get in the way but ESTPs and ISTPs would see religion as an unnecessary hindrance.

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