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  1. #11
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    IxTJ

    Dislike god and religion.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityDeviantPride View Post
    ...
    NF:

    My basic observation is that NF's are almost always angstful toward religion - gripped on one side by romantic credulism, and on the other by an abstract intellect that allows them to be quite skeptical about anything that can't tie it's loose ends together. More than that, they often have a distaste for the 'box' that religion can put us in, and also for the repression and close-mindedness of those who are convinced that their truth is the only truth.

    Therefore, it seems natural that NF's would lean toward the spiritual, not supernatural... the principles, not the beliefs. But, if they do believe, watch out. Joan of Arc got herself killed and sainted (which, I suspect, is the deep-seeded goal of many NF's. C'mon, admit it!)
    I am an NT/NF

    I bolded those phrases I relate to.

    While I am a Christian, I don't believe in denominations.
    I don't believe any one denomination has the whole truth, though some may have more of it than others.
    I believe in the principles that the Bible puts forth.
    I don't believe in jumping through hoops to prove something to other people.
    Ever since I was very young, I have believed in God, though I also frequently doubted.

    NT:
    As I stated before, I have observed that many INTP's drift toward Agnosticism. I think this is a result of their P aspect not feeling comfortable with absolutes. But, NT's in general have tended to be somewhere between Atheist (The Religion of Science), and Uninterested. With a dash of conspiracy-theorist, science-fiction credulism popping up at certain times in certain people.

    Ultimately, NT's are the disbelievers true. It seems foolish to believe, and mindless to agree.

    I am interested in what those of the various types have to say about my analysis of their type's tendencies, and how they themselves may fit into it or differ from it.

    Specifics aren't as important. I don't care if you prefer 'same essence' over 'similar essence'. But, how you fit or don't fit into the natural tendencies of your type... and your thoughts about what those natural tendencies might be.
    I think you might be overly INTPish in your description of the NT approach to religion.
    It doesn't describe me at all.
    But I am just one person.

  3. #13
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityDeviantPride View Post
    My basic observation is that NF's are almost always angstful toward religion - gripped on one side by romantic credulism, and on the other by an abstract intellect that allows them to be quite skeptical about anything that can't tie it's loose ends together. More than that, they often have a distaste for the 'box' that religion can put us in, and also for the repression and close-mindedness of those who are convinced that their truth is the only truth.

    Therefore, it seems natural that NF's would lean toward the spiritual, not supernatural... the principles, not the beliefs. But, if they do believe, watch out. Joan of Arc got herself killed and sainted (which, I suspect, is the deep-seeded goal of many NF's. C'mon, admit it!)
    The only generalization I can make of all of my NF friends in real life is that all of us ponder the 'deep' metaphysical stuff on a regular basis, and formulate our own beliefs of it, and our own views form pretty strong foundations of who we are, how we operate, our value systems and outlook on the world. And we're all open and accepting of each others' beliefs.

    But aside from that - the tendency for all to *ponder* the stuff - I don't know that I could generalize any further.

    Since I personally am not part of a church organization or that type of environment, I do not meet people of any type, in my social life at least, who are religious. I have one INFJ friend who is a very devout Christian, but she is the only NF in my life right now who is religious. Then I have two INFJ friends who are agnostics, two ENFP friends who are non-practicing/non-religious, an INFP friend who is agnostic, and an ENfJ friend who is agnostic/bordering on pagan/new age.

    It's simply just different circles of people/'subcultures' (not a subculture really, but for lack of a better word...).

    On the other hand, there are a lot of NF's who DO have strong beliefs (as evidenced on this board!!), and practice a specific religion. I simply do not come across them in real life, because, well, I don't go to church.

    So yeah, the same would be true for all of the temperaments. A lot of people in real life in their free time are only going to come in contact with those people who share the same overall life direction and social circles/values/beliefs, so I think because of this it's dangerous to generalize on something like religion. Those who are religious very well may only come into contact with others who are of their religion, and those who are non-religious very well may only come in contact with non-religious people, so making generalizations based on who you come into contact with in real life might not be effective.....oh, I'm rambling today.... :-) **And I'm making another generalization within this paragraph too. :-)
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  4. #14
    Member Othon's Avatar
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    I'm an INfP, and I'm spiritual, maybe agnostic. However, I don't trust science completely either. It has a history of inconsistency and will continue to do so.
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  5. #15

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    The feel I am getting right off the bat is that I have underestimated the N's ability to believe.

    Each of the NF's and NT's I have met have struggled greatly with religion. I have noticed that many NF's and NT's 'play along' as it were, for the sake of peaceful relationships or to just be left alone.

    However, I should have realized that there would be a 'healthy minority' of N's who would be 'believers'.


    I wish there were more SP's and SJ's around to comment.
    "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

    "I drank what!?" -Socrates

  6. #16
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I have struggled greatly with religion throughout my life, and only reached a level of peace with it in recent years. However, regardless of the struggling with the methods or styles of enacting beliefs, I've always believed in God, even as a child of a non-religious family.

    Being religious in Europe is to go against the grain. One believes and worships, quite against the grain of the mainly secular societies, wherein the vast majority do not attend any church. In any school class/year there'll only be one or two kids who regularly go to church, and they're often bullied ruthlessly for it. As an adult, you can barely display a cross or any religious symbol without risking being taken to task for every single crime that was ever done in the name of religion, since the dawn of time - on a regular basis.

    Therefore, one would expect that the types of people who believe, despite this, and who approach religion of their own accord without having been raised as such, would be very different to those in a culture where religion is the norm/expected.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityDeviantPride View Post
    I am an INTP, and therefore eternally subject to intellectual obsessions.

    I have two: Philosophy of Religion, and Types.

    So, in keeping with that I want to exhale some thoughts on those subjects, and their intersections.

    First of all, I am an Agnostic at heart, as I believe it is natural for an INTP to be. At about 18 I converted to Christianity (LDS, to be precise) and spent two years far from home, doing nothing else put proselyting that very faith. Since then, I have had a great deal of time to ponder my beliefs and decisions. I hope I have used that time wisely.
    So what made you come into religion not having any? It's a little rare in my experience to see an NT come into anything of that sort. I too am mormon btw. I find it to be in line with the values I try to uphold. Not too confining or structured, but it tries to make a difference, and the belief is that you get your own revelations to live your life the way you and god think is best. I like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityDeviantPride View Post

    NF:

    My basic observation is that NF's are almost always angstful toward religion - gripped on one side by romantic credulism, and on the other by an abstract intellect that allows them to be quite skeptical about anything that can't tie it's loose ends together. More than that, they often have a distaste for the 'box' that religion can put us in, and also for the repression and close-mindedness of those who are convinced that their truth is the only truth.
    I really ought to have bolded that all. It's been very true for me. I find myself despising the other members of my church or of any other religion with self righteous attitudes. I just think and Christ, and how when he came he didn't spend his time with those who believed in the letter of the law as an absolute. He condemned them for their close mindedness. I really don't think of God as someone who is sitting on his almighty throne looking down at the things people do 'badly' closing his eyes like a naive king who doesn't want to acknowledge the ills and the wrongs. "Oh my! Is that man... drinking?!!! I've never seen that before!" But I uphold the regulations in my church because I feel that they make me a better person. No drinking, no drugs, no coffee, makes me in the end more healthy, more in tune with my body and my own personal nirvana.
    But the three beliefs I value the most in my particular church are as follows: We came here to be free to make our own decisions. Freedom, is above all the most important thing. If we never made our own choices how would we know the value of them? For me, being raised in a house where basically my really first big decision I ever made on my own pertained to where I would give birth to my daughter, I can tell you the value of being a free agent. So many take it for granted
    Second: I like the idea that God still lives and talks to us today, new scripture can be revealed, new revelation can be given, either to you or through a prophet. (For me it's both.) I mean the thing is, why would God just stop talking to the world? Has he just stopped caring the last 2000 years? I mean, lots of people look down on me for believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I look at it this way. I feel like God talked to me on the matter. I mean how could someone really condemn me for having faith in him when they could believe in Moses? I say that if it gets you nearer to God then it gets you nearer to God. If a tree yields good fruits, then why condemn the tree?
    I think God gives us all our personal truths, and I believe that there is a time place and season to everything, every belief under heaven.
    The third thing I like about the church I'm in: Temple work. Lots of people are really curious about what goes on in the Mormon Temple. It's simply this, and this is all. We do the ordinances we believe in for our ancestors and the dead. I like the idea that truth would go beyond the bonds of death. That if baptism really is required then what about that kid who died when they were twelve living in some remote place in 1398? Is he just screwed over? I feel like this religion has really completed a lot of answers for me.

    It's the way God talks to me, I feel good believing in God, and having faith. I feel happy and full of joy. And I have done it both ways. If joy and emotion and faith are fake, I would think that skepticism, apathy and disbelief would be as well. I called joy fake for so long, but I feel I know the difference now. And more than a moral code and civil rules to live by: I am full of joy , and it's real enough to me.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    I don't want to snipe this thread, but I was reading about this after it came up a month (or more?) ago. I recommend reading;

    The Relation of Jungian Psychological Type to Religious Attitudes and Practices

    If one can... it really chops down the differences effectively. (Nothing said here is really contradictory to it, although not all of it is suppoted either )

  9. #19
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    this thread reminded me of this link that I found rather amusing!

    Religion and Type - An MBTI Perspective

    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityDeviantPride View Post

    SP:
    Hedonism is the religion of SP's. Not sex, not lasciviousness, but happiness and pleasure. Fun, excitement, joy, and sensory fulfillment are the ideals to be upheld. Many religions offer this, or at least aspects of those religions help us to achieve it. Beyond that, SP's are inclined to believe. Where N's miss the mark with their deconstructions, the SP's accept that we don't know everything. Faith leads to fulfillment in a real sense, and real happiness is more important than nitpicky analysis and 'endless possibilities'.

    What brings us happiness and helps in a real way? That's the SP's religion.
    Heroin makes people happy but it isn't good for them. Neither is religion. I may be an SP but I'm also a 6w5 and prone to questioning things I aught not. All I care about is the truth and comforting lies don't make me feel safe.

    Atheism and Nihilism are far more comforting to me than christianity ever was. I can go about my life how I see fit and not worry that I'll spend eternity being tortured for choosing the wrong fairytale, be forced to praise the ego of a god with the emotional capacity of a spoiled child, or maybe worst of all reincarnate and do this again and again forever.

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