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  1. #11
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Cool topic. I think it is possible to be completely honest and distortion-free. I usually notice it come in waves, but it's something I'd like to cultivate.

  2. #12
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    One of the questions it asks is - What do you understand is the truth of your own situation at this given time?

    By truth it mean -
    Not the voice in your head that plays the denial game.
    Not the 'make do' with my lot in life.
    Not the 'well i can justify why i am doing what is it i am doing at present'
    The main problem for me is to find a balance. I know it doesn't work to just "follow your heart" in all the situations, and I know it is equally bad to just let the external reality set my life for me. But, in some ways these don't seem to be on the same scale. It is as if I can at the same time be more truthful and let the reality guide me. I don't have a full grasp of this idea yet, but I am pretty sure it is possible to be truthful and yet lead a relatively normal life. I mean, I am quite confident that I need to live by a set of standards but there is no way I am going to be a hermit and sacrifice all the fun... I think that if your standards lead you to bitterness they can't be coming from your true self.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think he's worth reading because he so strenuously challenged mainstream religious/life thought of the day; working to grasp his points really helps jolt one out of one's assumed framework and sets one up in the future to think more freely.

    But I do agree with a lot of your assessment here.
    Man what I wrote there was wordy.

    I liked to read Nietzsche (I always mispell his name) when I first discovered him, initally reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra and liking that the use of aphorism and teaching tales to challenge received wisdom.

    His observations that God is Dead etc. are just stating what should have been obvious, like Marx or Freud's observations in their respective fields, however I think his significance is over stated, especially now, often because people cite secondary sources from a different time with different prevailing social character.

    For instance Rollo May and some of the existentialist analysts love to go on and on about how N. is a masterful psychologist, perhaps if you are in the grip of neurotic compulsions, stressors and guilt the component of relativism could be a real source of relief but that's not the problem of the age any longer. At least I dont think so. Instead N. provides the underpinning for extreme licentious behaviour which in the main translates into exploitation, predation or the like, maybe not at a structural level but definitely at a personal level or subcultural level.

    There's a lot in common between N. lite and Ayn Rand's philosophy and I dont like either in the final analysis.

  4. #14
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    in my opinion spirituality and intelligence shouldnt be used in same sentence
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  5. #15
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There's a lot in common between N. lite and Ayn Rand's philosophy and I dont like either in the final analysis.
    As someone who hates Ayn Rand and finds her to be a mental midget, I take offense to you even mentioning her name in the same sentence as N!

    I think Nietzsche is one of my favorite philosophers. I however think that his ideas should in todays light generally be read as "literary ideas" rather than actual "philosophies". For example, "Slave vs Master morality" is hardly something as systematic and "highly philosophical" as Kantian, Aristotelian or Spinozian. However, its an awesome little literary idea. For strict philosohy, I think there are definitely better ones. However, for pure enjoyment, expanding ones mind and sort of "putting the whole ordeal to rest", I think Nietzsche is one of the best.

    ---------------------------------------
    To the OP, about "spiritual intelligence":

    After studying Christianity, I realized that simply latching onto a world view in hope of purpose does not equal happiness.
    After studying Kant, I realized that simply discovering epistemological truths does not equal happiness.
    After studying Nietzsche, I realized that trying to philosophize the meaning of life was pointless and almost sophomoric.
    After studying John Stuart Mill, I realized that passive pleasure is not equal with happiness. True happiness requires action and engagement in acts of intellectual complexity, aesthetic imagination and/or moral sentiment.

    So what I can tell you is that at the end of the day, the world view is not really that important. What is important is that you are seeking intrinsic justification for living (active vs passive pleasure). If you can do this, then you are most likely not falling into the negative traps of philosophizing or latching onto unauthentic truths and world views.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post

    I think it's that "why" question. Why did I respond that way? Why did I get so angry? Why did I feel so hurt? I use it on others too-why did that person respond that way? I just keep asking why about smaller and smaller chunks till I identify some core, some pattern. From the pattern I can rebuild anew and choose not to repeat the pattern again.
    Lol .. I used to be like that where i would over analyse my thoughts and it just got the the point where i would end up with more questions than answers. These days i just take a step back, free from emotions and objectively view the situation as i would do with a friend. Remove the gloss and to see it for exactly what it is, really does make a refreshing change

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    There are ways to be truthful to oneself, but yeu have to recognize yeur own inner feelings and whot they imply.

    Regardless, the idea of IQ/EQ/SQ is kind of interesting I suppose, and am curious about getting a copy of that book. Yeu never said WHICH book though...
    Ouch, i find i do better when i remove the feelings.

    The book is called 'The 7 steps to spiritual intelligence' By Richard A. Bowell

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Im usually confused as to the exact difference between Spiritual intelligence and Existential Intelligence.
    Lol .. It does mention briefly existentialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    What is so authentic about looking for a more meaningful existence? What is so loathsome about conducting a down-to-earth existence, appreciating the here-and-now? Why be spiritual for the sake of being spiritual?
    Oh, don't get me wrong, i do appreciate the here and now .. I am a sensor afterall but why can there not be something more. To be in tune and on a frequency with something bigger, far bigger than we can imagine.
    I like being open minded

    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    Cool topic. I think it is possible to be completely honest and distortion-free. I usually notice it come in waves, but it's something I'd like to cultivate.
    Excellent .. Well for me, especially being a reactionary person, i find this exercise useful .. Practice being aware of the space within which the self is present in every moment. This is done by becoming aware that you don't have to act, react, reply to someones acts or words or the flood of impressions. Just practice this until you become aware that there is an internal space. Don't engage in unnecessary things like other peoples arguments or yesterdays (or today's) papers unless you choose to.

    And that is what i like about this .. I am making a conscious choice how to behave in a given situation. I am choosing to be angry, calm, sad, happy .. I am in control of my emotions/thoughts as opposed to the other way round.

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I mean, I am quite confident that I need to live by a set of standards but there is no way I am going to be a hermit and sacrifice all the fun... I think that if your standards lead you to bitterness they can't be coming from your true self.
    I like your thinking
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...There's a lot in common between N. lite and Ayn Rand's philosophy and I dont like either in the final analysis.
    I have trouble faulting the original author for works that were applicable in the context in which they were created; I'm more inclined to blame un-nuanced application of their ideas within new contexts they might have never considered. All works, no matter how good or bad, eventually go out of vogue as context changes and need to be challenged/reworked.

    (All that being said, I can't quite say even Rand lived according to her own ideals of total independence.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The Profane and the Sacred

    I am surprised to discover Sam Harris.

    I am surprised because he understands that ideology informs all that we do. He understands that ideology has consequences. He understands that we take ideology for granted and that it is not only invisible but denied.

    He probably understands that ideology is pre-digested thought, it serves interests and has a demonology.

    He understands that each ideology has a human history and has a beginning, a middle and an end.

    He understands that we are pattern seeking mammals and prefer any ideology than no ideology.

    He also knows that ideology can be understood using evidence and reason.

    He knows that we can stand outside of ideology using evidence and reason.

    And by standing outside of ideology we can understand it.

    And by standing outside of ideology we stand outside of the taken-for-granted and so enter the state of ecstasy.

    Sam Harris is, par excellence, a man of the Enlightenment.

    And he embodies the paradox that the Enlightenment lead to ecstasy.

    All around me people are groping towards ecstasy so much so that they are just waiting to finish work and take a pill called ekstasi.

    Unbeknownst they are reaching back to the deepest part of our culture to the Ancient Greeks who gave us the word ecstasy, meaning stepping outside the taken-for-granted.

    Little do we know that we are reaching of the Enlightenment, that we are lying in the gutter looking at the stars.

    Fortunately the Enlightenment is under attack by a violent ideology and in defending ourselves we have no alternative but to fall back on the Enlightenment and our heritage of ecstasy.

    Ecstasy is whole, holy and wholesome while the pill, ekstasi, is merely the profane face of ecstasy.

    And we only have to turn the profane over to discover the sacred underneath.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I am surprised to discover Sam Harris.

    I am surprised because he understands that ideology informs all that we do. He understands that ideology has consequences. He understands that we take ideology for granted and that it is not only invisible but denied.

    He probably understands that ideology is pre-digested thought, it serves interests and has a demonology.

    He understands that each ideology has a human history and has a beginning, a middle and an end.

    He understands that we are pattern seeking mammals and prefer any ideology than no ideology.

    He also knows that ideology can be understood using evidence and reason.

    He knows that we can stand outside of ideology using evidence and reason.

    And by standing outside of ideology we can understand it.

    And by standing outside of ideology we stand outside of the taken-for-granted and so enter the state of ecstasy.

    Sam Harris is, par excellence, a man of the Enlightenment.

    And he embodies the paradox that the Enlightenment lead to ecstasy.

    All around me people are groping towards ecstasy so much so that they are just waiting to finish work and take a pill called ekstasi.

    Unbeknownst they are reaching back to the deepest part of our culture to the Ancient Greeks who gave us the word ecstasy, meaning stepping outside the taken-for-granted.

    Little do we know that we are reaching of the Enlightenment, that we are lying in the gutter looking at the stars.

    Fortunately the Enlightenment is under attack by a violent ideology and in defending ourselves we have no alternative but to fall back on the Enlightenment and our heritage of ecstasy.

    Ecstasy is whole, holy and wholesome while the pill, ekstasi, is merely the profane face of ecstasy.

    And we only have to turn the profane over to discover the sacred underneath.
    Enjoying yourself there Victor?

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