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  1. #101
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Speaking for myself, I want other people to keep their religious beliefs to themselves. Don't proselytize.

    I don't want atheists proselytizing me either. They can be every bit as annoying as the most dyed-in-the-wool, born again, fundamentalist religionist.
    Isn't that a religious belief?

    Thou shalt not proselytize.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  2. #102
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Isn't that a religious belief?

    Thou shalt not proselytize.
    No, it is a secular keep your religion to yourself belief.

  3. #103
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    No, it is a secular keep your religion to yourself belief.
    Your statement is nonsensical.

    Webster's dictionary defines secular as "of or relating to the worldly or temporal."

    So I don't know how you can have a secular belief about the religious... although it's certainly possible to have a religious belief about the secular.

    Any belief about religion is necessarily non-secular.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Your statement is nonsensical.

    Webster's dictionary defines secular as "of or relating to the worldly or temporal."

    So I don't know how you can have a secular belief about the religious... although it's certainly possible to have a religious belief about the secular.

    Any belief about religion is necessarily non-secular.
    Yes, you heard me right. I am making a request on how I want to be treated in the secular world.

    Put another way for the hard of listening: Unless you see me in your church on Sunday, don't bug me with your need to spread the good news.


    I feel the same way about politics. Unless we're interacting in a political forum or campaigning, I don't want you to try and convert me to your political views.

    It isn't a belief, it is a social request. And just good manners.

  5. #105
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Speaking for myself, I want other people to keep their religious beliefs to themselves. Don't proselytize.

    I don't want atheists proselytizing me either. They can be every bit as annoying as the most dyed-in-the-wool, born again, fundamentalist religionist.
    The problem with that for Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians is that proselytizing is intrinsic to their practice of religion. It's commanded in red letters. You get browbeat are encouraged every so often to be more 'bold in sharing the gospel,' etc. It's an interesting tension between good manners and obeying God's commands. It's one of the reasons I'm a sucky Evangelical.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #106
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Yes, you heard me right. I am making a request on how I want to be treated in the secular world.

    Put another way for the hard of listening: Unless you see me in your church on Sunday, don't bug me with your need to spread the good news.


    I feel the same way about politics. Unless we're interacting in a political forum or campaigning, I don't want you to try and convert me to your political views.

    It isn't a belief, it is a social request. And just good manners.
    How do you extricate belief from social request when the content of the request is religious and NOT secular in nature?


    EDIT: Let me add
    And just good manners.
    I don't see how this can be seen as anything other than an attempt by you to force your beliefs about religion on other people.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    How do you extricate belief from social request when the content of the request is religious and NOT secular in nature?
    It's religious to you, it's your belief. To me, it's just too much white noise that is irking me.


    EDIT: Let me add


    I don't see how this can be seen as anything other than an attempt by you to force your beliefs about religion on other people.
    I am not asking you to believe or not believe anything. I am asking you not to bother me with it. It's no different than if I ask that you stop crunching ice or popping gum in my ear.

  8. #108
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    It's religious to you, it's your belief. To me, it's just too much white noise that is irking me.

    I am not asking you to believe or not believe anything. I am asking you not to bother me with it. It's no different than if I ask that you stop crunching ice or popping gum in my ear.
    It is entirely different. While both may annoy you one is derived from religious belief and the the other is not. Your claim that they are the same is necessarily a JUDGEMENT on religion.

    What you are trying to do is put limitations on religion through the guise of social convention.

    I don't know where you are from, but in America we have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. If you don't like what someone is writing you are free to avert your eyes.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    It is entirely different. While both may annoy you one is derived from religious belief and the the other is not. Your claim that they are the same is necessarily a JUDGEMENT on religion.

    What you are trying to do is put limitations on religion through the guise of social convention.

    I don't know where you are from, but in America we have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. If you don't like what someone is writing you are free to avert your eyes.
    So you believe that because your form of being obnoxious derives from your religious beliefs, then you have special exception from the normal polite guidelines? That people cannot ask you to refrain from harping on the topic?

    How is it any different from the guy who tells off color jokes that offend his office mate? Or the woman who won't stop crying on everyone's shoulder about her boy bad bf? Or the activist who can't stop turning every conversation into a debate? Or the elderly man who won't stop telling everyone about his hernia surgery?

    Stuffing the inboxes of friends and family with evangelical tracts is just like this. Constant harassing harping on a topic.

  10. #110
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I don't know where you are from, but in America we have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. If you don't like what someone is writing you are free to avert your eyes.
    i prefer to direct my eyes towards my finger clicking the X to remove the uppity cuckoos. i have no issues with believers of any religion, until they try to impose their beliefs onto me. i find that insulting especially since i respect them enough to not discuss my personal beliefs, to avoid perhaps offending them. most of my facebook friends are like minded and the religious friends are reasonable and keep that off their wall so it's not really a problem. i had one update that said she received blessings from the tree in her front yard. the flowers were falling off the tree. it was then that i realized our friendship was not meant to be and we quickly parted ways.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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